ENT 101- female moth genitalia
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
ENT 101- female moth genitalia
EDIT: was "What is this"
OK folks, I've been too easy on you in the past, more likely you have been too smart for me.
The gloves are off. This one is impossible!
Full frame (23.6mm wide) @ about 125x magnification.
Lots of clues:
A sphere, 1.1 mm diameter.
Smooth on outside but inside wall full of spikes.
Spike bases resemble the buttress base of the larger equatorial rain forest trees.
This is an inside view of the wall after the sphere was broken open.
I think the black jig-saw-puzzle piece is a broken cross section near a spike's tip.
Ignore the blotchines, I still can't fathom DMap.
NU11100
OK folks, I've been too easy on you in the past, more likely you have been too smart for me.
The gloves are off. This one is impossible!
Full frame (23.6mm wide) @ about 125x magnification.
Lots of clues:
A sphere, 1.1 mm diameter.
Smooth on outside but inside wall full of spikes.
Spike bases resemble the buttress base of the larger equatorial rain forest trees.
This is an inside view of the wall after the sphere was broken open.
I think the black jig-saw-puzzle piece is a broken cross section near a spike's tip.
Ignore the blotchines, I still can't fathom DMap.
NU11100
Last edited by NikonUser on Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
Time for the next clues.
The sphere is at the end of a tube.
Often there is a second sphere (with a tube) inside.
Outside surface showing flat bases of the spines and part of the second sphere.
About 60x on sensor.
NU11100
The sphere is at the end of a tube.
Often there is a second sphere (with a tube) inside.
Outside surface showing flat bases of the spines and part of the second sphere.
About 60x on sensor.
NU11100
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
Hmm indeed!
yes, the second sphere with the second tube is inside the first sphere and its tube.
And, the 2 spheres and tubes are inside the thingy (a moth) that I have taken these spheres and tubes out of.
That almost gives away the answer.
yes, the second sphere with the second tube is inside the first sphere and its tube.
And, the 2 spheres and tubes are inside the thingy (a moth) that I have taken these spheres and tubes out of.
That almost gives away the answer.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
Hey Laurie, that's very good. You are on the right track, sort of 50% correct.
the lens for the 1st shot was an Oly 40x SPlan Apo, NA 0.95
the lens for the 1st shot was an Oly 40x SPlan Apo, NA 0.95
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
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Let me be super strict here.
NO.
'What is' refers to the 1st image -singular.
NO.
'What is' refers to the 1st image -singular.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23972
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
- Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
- Contact:
- Planapo
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:33 am
- Location: Germany, in the United States of Europe
I'm with Eric and think it is a Bursa copulatrix. The chitinous spikes have the function to open up the spermatophore which would be the second sphere with tube that is often inside, but not in your picture here.
Great photos NU, I have never seen it in such a beautiful photomicrograph. That will make it stick to my mind.
--Betty
Great photos NU, I have never seen it in such a beautiful photomicrograph. That will make it stick to my mind.
--Betty
Thanks everyone for playing this game, and for the kind comments. Eric got it correct.
With moths, fertilization is internal although the egg is not actually fertilized until immediately before it is laid - so, almost external fertilization.
The male has a complex intromittent organ (aedeagus, penis) for depositing sperm into the female.
The female has a relatively large pouch (the bursa copulatrix, or bursa) where the male's sperm is stored.
This is where it gets complicated.
The male's eversible aedeagus apparently extends into the female's bursa (hey guys, think of the consequences in this species).
Copulation is a lengthy process but in the end the male's sperm ends up in a relatively thick-walled sac (a spermatophore) in the bursa, and
connected to the tip of the female's abdomen by a tube:
1 - bursa
2 - male's spermatophore (sperm package)
3 - duct
4 - ostium
5 - diverticulum
The size of the spermatophore suggests that it is formed inside the bursa rather than it being deposited fully formed.
This would also account for the long copulation time.
The basic structure of both male and female genitalia are consistent for all moths, however the actual 'arrangement' of the bits and pieces is unique for all species (a few exceptions) and thus examination of the genitalia is a basic tool for species identification.
These images are from a small geometric moth a Larch Pug (Eupithecia lariciata).
An image of an empty bursa copulatrix, for this species, on the MPG site:
http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.e ... ges=7548.2
With moths, fertilization is internal although the egg is not actually fertilized until immediately before it is laid - so, almost external fertilization.
The male has a complex intromittent organ (aedeagus, penis) for depositing sperm into the female.
The female has a relatively large pouch (the bursa copulatrix, or bursa) where the male's sperm is stored.
This is where it gets complicated.
The male's eversible aedeagus apparently extends into the female's bursa (hey guys, think of the consequences in this species).
Copulation is a lengthy process but in the end the male's sperm ends up in a relatively thick-walled sac (a spermatophore) in the bursa, and
connected to the tip of the female's abdomen by a tube:
1 - bursa
2 - male's spermatophore (sperm package)
3 - duct
4 - ostium
5 - diverticulum
The size of the spermatophore suggests that it is formed inside the bursa rather than it being deposited fully formed.
This would also account for the long copulation time.
The basic structure of both male and female genitalia are consistent for all moths, however the actual 'arrangement' of the bits and pieces is unique for all species (a few exceptions) and thus examination of the genitalia is a basic tool for species identification.
These images are from a small geometric moth a Larch Pug (Eupithecia lariciata).
An image of an empty bursa copulatrix, for this species, on the MPG site:
http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.e ... ges=7548.2
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23972
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
- Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
- Contact: