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Infinity objective with Raynox DCR-150 as tube lens
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Infinity objective with Raynox DCR-150 as tube lens Reply with quote

Hi, have some setup pictures mounting the infinity corrected microscope objective in combination with the Raynox DCR-150.

A general view showing the complete rig:



Elements Bottom-up:

Manfrotto 190pro Alu tripod, I hang the Lowepro Minitrekker backpack with some weight in the center to gain stability.
Manfrotto Macro Flash Bracket threaded directly to 3/8 tripod plate screw (just the two bigger parts) working as "interface", no head here, I have a 460 MG too light for high magnification work.
Newport 426 stage with sm-25 micrometer.
Nikon PB-6 (mounted in the PB-6E long clamp)



From left to right:

Nikon D300.
Panagor 21mm extension ring.
Nikon PB-6.
Raynox DCR-150 macro conversion lens, a 52-49mm step-up to fit in the bellows pressure circular clamp and a 52-43mm step-down in the back thread of PB-6 frontal bracket.



Nikon PN-11 extension ring (a very solid piece of equipment)
Nikon M2 extension ring (is possible some variation here, depending of the desired separation between lenses), I like the M2 "rectangular baffle" for cut-off internal reflections.
Nikon-T2 adapter, a cheap Chinese one.
Beljan T Mount-RMS adapter.
Nikon infinity corrected CF PLAN EPI 10X/0.30 NA 16.5 WD, I can mount the 5X/0.13 22,5 WD and the 20X/0.35 20.5 SLWD too! Very Happy



I'm still working in the specimen setup... now is a very simple double sliding melamine board and a Manfrotto tabletop tripod with ball head and a little clamp on the desktop table.

The illumination is with a Nikon SB-26 flash and a paper or plastic diffuser.

OK... that's all, suggestions and comments are welcome!

Cheers

Joaquim
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Last edited by Joaquim F. on Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18165
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim, thanks for the description and pictures of your setup. I have split this post into a new topic so that we can keep the setups organized by their titles.

--Rik
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
Joaquim, thanks for the description and pictures of your setup. I have split this post into a new topic so that we can keep the setups organized by their titles.

--Rik


Thank you Rik.

Cheers

Joaquim
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 3955
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim,
This setup doesnt seem more compact or easy to use than your former tests coupling the infinite objective on a 200mm tele lens. Are your results better whith this aproach?
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5760
Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim,

I'm curious if you have tried it with the objective mounted closer to the Raynox lens. Is there a reason you have it extended so far out front?
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
Joaquim,
This setup doesnt seem more compact or easy to use than your former tests coupling the infinite objective on a 200mm tele lens. Are your results better whith this aproach?


This setup is not easier but I win some quality at the image margins, by design and luminosity the Raynox is similar to Nikon tube lens but is necessary a long extension and put all together in a solid setup, there is another reason to mount it in the bellows, I'm mulling over the possibility of mounting a homemade "Epi-illumination" lighting because these objectives are designed for that kind of light. I'm still looking for information about this...

Charles Krebs wrote:
Joaquim,

I'm curious if you have tried it with the objective mounted closer to the Raynox lens. Is there a reason you have it extended so far out front?


Yes, is easy change the distance between lenses using extension rings, I simply follow the information found in Nikon MicroscopyU site, in his articles talk about the convenience of some distance between lenses for better optical performance and in my setup seems work better in the 150mm distance range, in the middle of the Nikon recommendations (100-200mm).

Cheers

Joaquim
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rjlittlefield
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim F. wrote:
there is another reason to mount it in the bellows, I'm mulling over the possibility of mounting a homemade "Epi-illumination" lighting because these objectives are designed for that kind of light.

I think it would be better to put such a thing between the objective and the tube lens.

One of the great advantages of the infinity design is that you can for example stick a half-silvered mirror between the objective and the tube lens without getting ghosts in your images. See discussion HERE.

--Rik
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
Joaquim F. wrote:
there is another reason to mount it in the bellows, I'm mulling over the possibility of mounting a homemade "Epi-illumination" lighting because these objectives are designed for that kind of light.

I think it would be better to put such a thing between the objective and the tube lens.

One of the great advantages of the infinity design is that you can for example stick a half-silvered mirror between the objective and the tube lens without getting ghosts in your images. See discussion HERE.

--Rik


Thank you, a very interesting and detailed discussion! (I really need some time for understand all that!) Smile

Please a question, I have some references which mentions a beneficial effect of a polarizing filter on the blue halos usually seen around bright areas with some lenses, a half-mirror may have a similar effect? (I really hate that blue halos!!!)

I take this opportunity to upload some pictures taken with this setup the last Sunday (Stormy weather here)

Beetle wingtip, Nikon CF PLAN 10X with Raynox DCR-150, 120 images with 0.01mm increments in Zerene Stacker PMax:

Full frame:



center 100% crop:



Some dust here, sorry!

Bottom center margin 100% crop:



Extreme bottom left corner 100% crop:



Criticism and comments are welcome!

Cheers

joaquim
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rjlittlefield
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim F. wrote:
I have some references which mentions a beneficial effect of a polarizing filter on the blue halos usually seen around bright areas with some lenses, a half-mirror may have a similar effect?

Sorry, I cannot help here. I have not seen those references. But I cannot imagine how a half-mirror could help to reduce those halos.

--Rik
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Bob^3



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 287
Location: Orange County, California

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim, I'm responding to this older thread instead of the newer similar threads HERE and HERE to bump it up with the other ones. I missed this discussion when first posted and others may have as well. Your tests answer many of my questions and you are using (Nikon) equipment very similar to mine, so the results are even more valid for me.

Joaquim F. wrote:
Quote:
Charles Krebs wrote:
Joaquim,

I'm curious if you have tried it with the objective mounted closer to the Raynox lens. Is there a reason you have it extended so far out front?


Yes, is easy change the distance between lenses using extension rings, I simply follow the information found in Nikon MicroscopyU site, in his articles talk about the convenience of some distance between lenses for better optical performance and in my setup seems work better in the 150mm distance range, in the middle of the Nikon recommendations (100-200mm).

This is also one of my main questions. My goal is to construct a small portable optical assembly for field use using a helicoid like shown by Craig in the linked thread. Have you carefully tested image quality at different distances between the Raynox and the 10x/0.25 CFI objective, with the Raynox at infinity focus from the sensor? If the quality at 150mm is better, in what way---sharpness center to corner, CA center to corner?

I don't own any of the Raynox diopters yet; so I'm trying to plan the best approach. Too bad Raynox doesn't make a variable FL zoom diopter! Very Happy

Thanks,
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
Joaquim F. wrote:
I have some references which mentions a beneficial effect of a polarizing filter on the blue halos usually seen around bright areas with some lenses, a half-mirror may have a similar effect?

Sorry, I cannot help here. I have not seen those references. But I cannot imagine how a half-mirror could help to reduce those halos.

--Rik


I just read the post about the tilted CFI neutral density filter and the partial reflection that would occur is very much like using a semi-mirror although very little angle! I have not mounted the epi-illumination, many things to do and little time but I think could work well.

greetings
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 172
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob^3 wrote:
Joaquim, I'm responding to this older thread instead of the newer similar threads HERE and HERE to bump it up with the other ones. I missed this discussion when first posted and others may have as well. Your tests answer many of my questions and you are using (Nikon) equipment very similar to mine, so the results are even more valid for me.

Joaquim F. wrote:
Quote:
Charles Krebs wrote:
Joaquim,

I'm curious if you have tried it with the objective mounted closer to the Raynox lens. Is there a reason you have it extended so far out front?


Yes, is easy change the distance between lenses using extension rings, I simply follow the information found in Nikon MicroscopyU site, in his articles talk about the convenience of some distance between lenses for better optical performance and in my setup seems work better in the 150mm distance range, in the middle of the Nikon recommendations (100-200mm).

This is also one of my main questions. My goal is to construct a small portable optical assembly for field use using a helicoid like shown by Craig in the linked thread. Have you carefully tested image quality at different distances between the Raynox and the 10x/0.25 CFI objective, with the Raynox at infinity focus from the sensor? If the quality at 150mm is better, in what way---sharpness center to corner, CA center to corner?

I don't own any of the Raynox diopters yet; so I'm trying to plan the best approach. Too bad Raynox doesn't make a variable FL zoom diopter! Very Happy

Thanks,


Well, not very carefully test, just fast and not very scientific ones Smile but using the new CFI is possible to shorten the lens distances to about 10 cm without problems, at less distance margins are a little worse. It seems that if the raynox catches light coming from CFI objective at too much angle loses a bit of quality even in the DX camera. Perhaps the easiest way is used directly in the 105mm or the 200/4 AI that also works well on DX sensor cameras. Assembling camera + tube + raynox + rings + CFI seems more complicated for a portable rig.

Greetings
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joaquim F. wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
Joaquim F. wrote:
I have some references which mentions a beneficial effect of a polarizing filter on the blue halos usually seen around bright areas with some lenses, a half-mirror may have a similar effect?

Sorry, I cannot help here. I have not seen those references. But I cannot imagine how a half-mirror could help to reduce those halos.

I just read the post about the tilted CFI neutral density filter and the partial reflection that would occur is very much like using a semi-mirror although very little angle! I have not mounted the epi-illumination, many things to do and little time but I think could work well.

If you add a polarizing filter then you will add reflections. Tilting the polarizer is a good way to get rid of some of those added reflections. No problem there. The part I can't imagine is how adding a polarizing filter or half-mirror would eliminate halos that would be present without them.

--Rik
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Bob S



Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding blue halo removal:

I have seen reports that using a simple UV-cut filter can reduce blue haloes on some lenses. The claim is that the filter removes UV and a small amount of blue light. The lens has poor corrections for these colors; this is the reason for the haloes. Removing the light removes the haloes.

A polarizing filter might accidentally have a similar effect.
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob S wrote:
Regarding blue halo removal:

I have seen reports that using a simple UV-cut filter can reduce blue haloes on some lenses. The claim is that the filter removes UV and a small amount of blue light. The lens has poor corrections for these colors; this is the reason for the haloes. Removing the light removes the haloes.

A polarizing filter might accidentally have a similar effect.


Looking for some filters I see an astronomical one named "Baader Fringe Killer", is name is the best description for the intended use!
Seems to cut out violet-blue halos around stars in affordable achromatic refractor telescopes.
Use it between the two elements of the infinite optical system don't seem to be a problem (except for necessary adapters)
The bad thing is that it seems a very special technical filter and is more expensive than a used Nikon CFI 10X/0.25 at least at the most popular seller prices. Confused
For now maybe is best some try with a good UV or polariser filter.

Greetings

Joaquim
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