Focusing rail for field work
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
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Focusing rail for field work
I'm interesting in getting a macro focusing rail/rack/slide/back-and-forth-device for some field work. I've did what I feel is a pretty intensive search here on the forums, however I have some fairly specific questions.
So far it does seem that the Novoflex L rack wins as most people's favorite, however I find it's price to be a little over the top. I can't find it for lower than 350-400$ CAD (including shipping, taxes, etc), and that's without considering the need for an additional quick release clamp on top, and possibly a rail on the bottom (due to my RRS levered quick release clamp), which adds nearly an additional 200$ CAD total.
What I will be mounting this on is a Gitzo 3541XLS topped with a RRS BH-55 ball head. Yes, I know what must be going through some of your minds, after spending that much on tripod and head, why should I be balking at yet another measly 600$ But see, I bought these, a 500mm f/4P an various macro equipment all last year and my piggy bank is a little thin!
So on with the questions..
First, I've seen the Manfrotto 454 micrometer rail at a local store, but I've seen very little information on it otherwise. How suitable is this rail for macro work in the field, considering magnifications used will be from 1:4 to 4.7:1? This rail is sold at a fraction of the price of any other rail I've seen (apart from some ebay knockoffs)
Second, what ebay knockoffs are a good deal? i.e. which should be avoided, and which are little cheap gems?
So far it does seem that the Novoflex L rack wins as most people's favorite, however I find it's price to be a little over the top. I can't find it for lower than 350-400$ CAD (including shipping, taxes, etc), and that's without considering the need for an additional quick release clamp on top, and possibly a rail on the bottom (due to my RRS levered quick release clamp), which adds nearly an additional 200$ CAD total.
What I will be mounting this on is a Gitzo 3541XLS topped with a RRS BH-55 ball head. Yes, I know what must be going through some of your minds, after spending that much on tripod and head, why should I be balking at yet another measly 600$ But see, I bought these, a 500mm f/4P an various macro equipment all last year and my piggy bank is a little thin!
So on with the questions..
First, I've seen the Manfrotto 454 micrometer rail at a local store, but I've seen very little information on it otherwise. How suitable is this rail for macro work in the field, considering magnifications used will be from 1:4 to 4.7:1? This rail is sold at a fraction of the price of any other rail I've seen (apart from some ebay knockoffs)
Second, what ebay knockoffs are a good deal? i.e. which should be avoided, and which are little cheap gems?
I would consider using a linear slide with an A/S plate on the bottom and clamp on the top.
something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Single-Axis-Trans ... 5ad5c495d5
or this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1x-used-Chuo-Seik ... 518b7e46ad
Andrew
something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Single-Axis-Trans ... 5ad5c495d5
or this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1x-used-Chuo-Seik ... 518b7e46ad
Andrew
rgds, Andrew
"Is that an accurate dictionary ? Charlie Eppes
"Is that an accurate dictionary ? Charlie Eppes
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Ah, now we're talking! This is exactly the sort of reply I was hoping for; I didn't even know these existed. I like the video shown in the second ebay item. However I'm a bit concerned with the small 12mm travel (on the second model); but the price and size is certainly great! Obviously, it just means I have to just much more careful with tripod placement. And for rough positioning, the camera/lens plate can be slid within the clamp to some extent.
Though I wonder if the first ebay item posted is a knock-off or an older model? The website for Melles Griot shows double the price (at least) and the product item looks different.
The video in the second item shows that the center hole is threaded, what is intended to be threaded in there, considering the diameter of that hole?
I'll still see what other replies come down before making an order though (though this appears to be a strong contender!)
Though I wonder if the first ebay item posted is a knock-off or an older model? The website for Melles Griot shows double the price (at least) and the product item looks different.
The video in the second item shows that the center hole is threaded, what is intended to be threaded in there, considering the diameter of that hole?
I'll still see what other replies come down before making an order though (though this appears to be a strong contender!)
Stephane,
Looks like your're in the same position I was a couple of months ago before I'd discovered this forum!
I got a Newport Linear stage with Starrett micrometer cheap on ebay. Actually I got a kit with two different sets. One of them happened to have 1/4" threads on top an bottom which obviously was very convenient. It's 25mm travel but that is much more than I'll ever need – 12mm would be ebough! At least provided you have another rail (bellows) or method for coarser focus adjustments.
Looks like your're in the same position I was a couple of months ago before I'd discovered this forum!
I got a Newport Linear stage with Starrett micrometer cheap on ebay. Actually I got a kit with two different sets. One of them happened to have 1/4" threads on top an bottom which obviously was very convenient. It's 25mm travel but that is much more than I'll ever need – 12mm would be ebough! At least provided you have another rail (bellows) or method for coarser focus adjustments.
You can get long Arca-Swiss plates for doing just that Most of these slides move about 15mm - set by the micrometer limit rather than anything else.Stephane Savard wrote:... And for rough positioning, the camera/lens plate can be slid within the clamp to some extent.
...
The well known makers for these units are Newport and Melles-Griot. There are a bunch of Japanese maufacturers of equal or better quality. Search on eBay under phrases like "linear slide" or "optical slide" or "precision optical stage".
There are two basic configs - one has the micrometer to the side, the other has it on the end. Side mounted is best IMHO. Tapping is always interesting - typically it will be 1/4x20 on 1" centers or M6 on 25mm centres (sp !!!), but you sometimes get odd machining. The biggest challenge can be getting everything to mate together. Don't be frightened to drill holes in things to get the right spacing/size.
Andrew
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Thanks for the tips.. I've been looking at the chuo seiki and melles griot stages on ebay, but what was mentioned was currently my "problem", most do not list any sort of measurements for the threads and spacings, and how to mount the RRS clamps and rails to these things.
I'm not really setup for metal work however; I can drill holes into aluminum, but I can never figure out how to get them perfectly centered.
I'll expand my search to those brands mentioned.
I'm not really setup for metal work however; I can drill holes into aluminum, but I can never figure out how to get them perfectly centered.
I'll expand my search to those brands mentioned.
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How far apart they are - center to center of the holes, or "centre" if you write EnglishStephane Savard wrote:What exactly is the meaning of centers in "1/4x20 on 1" centers or M6 on 25mm centres"? The tapping I understand, just not the "centers" part.
rgds, Andrew
"Is that an accurate dictionary ? Charlie Eppes
"Is that an accurate dictionary ? Charlie Eppes
- PaulFurman
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Re: Focusing rail for field work
Stephane Savard wrote:I've seen the Manfrotto 454 micrometer rail at a local store, but I've seen very little information on it otherwise. How suitable is this rail for macro work in the field, considering magnifications used will be from 1:4 to 4.7:1? This rail is sold at a fraction of the price of any other rail I've seen (apart from some ebay knockoffs)
One of the reviews on Adorama says tightening the locking knob changes the position so it sounds pretty worthless for fine focusing but should be plenty sturdy and a rough positioning slide with substantial movement will be handy for working on a tripod in the field.
There is another style of slide with a guide screw through the middle which doesn't use the spring loaded mechanism in the video. Someone here adapted one for tripod use and that looked nice.
BTW I find those ratios for magnification very confusing. There is no standard but it's a lot clearer to me to say 0.2x to 4x.
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If you tighten the locking screw fully on the Manfrotto, it can alter the focus a little. The best way to use it is to tighten the locking screw, and then back off just eniugh that it is possible to adjust the positioning screw. That works well, and holds its position.
The position is adjusted by a knurled knob. It moves about 1.2 mm per full revolution. The knob is held on by means of a screw down its long axis. This has a hexagonal (Allen) recess in its end. If you have an Allen key of the right size, it is easy to leave it in place and use that to asjust the position of the rail. You can make up a small circular card with marks around its circumference and stick this over the knob. By using the Allen key it is easier (well, it is for me) to make fine adjustments. With the 12 "hours" marked on the card disk, it is quite possible to move half an increment each time, ie.e 24 positions per full revolution, or .05 mm per step.
It still lacks the fine control of a linear slide, but requires no thought about how to mount everything together. It really depends what you want to use the rail for. As you state that you are going up to about 4.7 x, the Manfrotto will cope with that.
Peter
The position is adjusted by a knurled knob. It moves about 1.2 mm per full revolution. The knob is held on by means of a screw down its long axis. This has a hexagonal (Allen) recess in its end. If you have an Allen key of the right size, it is easy to leave it in place and use that to asjust the position of the rail. You can make up a small circular card with marks around its circumference and stick this over the knob. By using the Allen key it is easier (well, it is for me) to make fine adjustments. With the 12 "hours" marked on the card disk, it is quite possible to move half an increment each time, ie.e 24 positions per full revolution, or .05 mm per step.
It still lacks the fine control of a linear slide, but requires no thought about how to mount everything together. It really depends what you want to use the rail for. As you state that you are going up to about 4.7 x, the Manfrotto will cope with that.
Peter
From looking at the image of this on Adorama, I would surmise that the end of the locking screw is either not flat or is not precisely perpendicular to the mating surface. You could hone the end of the screw or insert a small length (.125 to .25 inches) of round poly belting between the locking screw and the mating surface.Peter M. Macdonald wrote:If you tighten the locking screw fully on the Manfrotto, it can alter the focus a little. The best way to use it is to tighten the locking screw, and then back off just eniugh that it is possible to adjust the positioning screw. That works well, and holds its position.
The position is adjusted by a knurled knob. It moves about 1.2 mm per full revolution. The knob is held on by means of a screw down its long axis. This has a hexagonal (Allen) recess in its end. If you have an Allen key of the right size, it is easy to leave it in place and use that to asjust the position of the rail. You can make up a small circular card with marks around its circumference and stick this over the knob. By using the Allen key it is easier (well, it is for me) to make fine adjustments. With the 12 "hours" marked on the card disk, it is quite possible to move half an increment each time, ie.e 24 positions per full revolution, or .05 mm per step.
It still lacks the fine control of a linear slide, but requires no thought about how to mount everything together. It really depends what you want to use the rail for. As you state that you are going up to about 4.7 x, the Manfrotto will cope with that.
Peter
I have used a Proxxon milling table (has both x & y axis movements). Works well even with a heavy load - Nikon D2Xs, 200mm Micro Nikkor lens, and 2 flashes.
Nice piece of equipment for about $100.00.
Example HERE
Nice piece of equipment for about $100.00.
Example HERE
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.
Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives
- Charles Krebs
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Stephane,
I'm a big fan of fine, smooth movement, it's an absolute necessity for high magnification stacking. But keep in mind that at the lower magnifications in the range you mention (1:4 to 4.7:1) a micrometer driven linear slide can drive you crazy... it's actually too fine! You would need some way to "rough it in" (such as a long AS plate at the bottom that you can slide in the clamp... but I think this method is less than ideal). And even then, you'll find yourself cranking that micrometer around a lot.
I like and use the Novoflex, but as you say it's pretty pricey. (If you use a "lever" locking RRS clamp it doesn't lock sufficiently... the screw locking clamps are fine). I've heard good things about the Velbon Super Magnesium Slider, but never used one... could be worth a look. I have a Manfrotto 454 but don't really use it as I find it shifts too much as I lock it down tight.
How much weight... what equipment... will you be attaching to the slide?
I'm a big fan of fine, smooth movement, it's an absolute necessity for high magnification stacking. But keep in mind that at the lower magnifications in the range you mention (1:4 to 4.7:1) a micrometer driven linear slide can drive you crazy... it's actually too fine! You would need some way to "rough it in" (such as a long AS plate at the bottom that you can slide in the clamp... but I think this method is less than ideal). And even then, you'll find yourself cranking that micrometer around a lot.
I like and use the Novoflex, but as you say it's pretty pricey. (If you use a "lever" locking RRS clamp it doesn't lock sufficiently... the screw locking clamps are fine). I've heard good things about the Velbon Super Magnesium Slider, but never used one... could be worth a look. I have a Manfrotto 454 but don't really use it as I find it shifts too much as I lock it down tight.
How much weight... what equipment... will you be attaching to the slide?
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Also consider a Minolta Focusing- Rail I have two, one is fitted to my Simple Horizontal Rig for Pinned Insects
http://photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8722 and the other one is used on a tripod for field work.
The scale adaptation is simple, an old lens barrel screwed onto a tube, which then clamps onto the turning knob.
As always, I am very impressed with the high quality and integrity of “Old Minolta Camera “gear
http://photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8722 and the other one is used on a tripod for field work.
The scale adaptation is simple, an old lens barrel screwed onto a tube, which then clamps onto the turning knob.
As always, I am very impressed with the high quality and integrity of “Old Minolta Camera “gear
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Well, all this talk of the manfrotto 454 has turned me from it; that's the sort of information that I couldn't find with the forum's search, and hopefully it will help people searching in the future!
Charles; I had thought of ordering the Chuo Sekei linear slide posted above because of (a) the micrometer was side mounted, (b) I knew how to easily attaching it to a Wimberley long plate on the bottom and a Wimberley quick release clamp on top, and (c) it was less than 100$. However your warning about linear slides have now given me pause...
My problem right now is that I have a lever release clamp from RRS. I really like this clamp and it's absolutely great when I'm out shooting with my "normal" equipment. But of course, it's a pain which limits me and ends up costing more when stuff like the Novoflex L rack comes along.
As for what I plan to use it with, at the moment it's a D90 with reversed lenses. With a linear stage, I would add a fairly long plate to the bottom of the stage, used for coarse movement and to which I would attach the flash on it's articulating (ram-mount) arm. Last time I checked, the whole hand held rig weighs a little more than 2 kg. My tripod head, a RRS BH-55 can certainly hold that without a problem.
But later I will be adding a "conventional" macro lens to my bag. I used to own a Sigma 105mm, but sold it planning to get a 200mm micro-nikkor. However that's when plans suddenly changed and I got a good deal on a 500mm instead! But, I miss having a dedicated macro lens, so that will be coming up in the future, but whether it's one of the 105mm or a 200mm micro-nikkors is currently undecided.
Finally; the Velbon Super Magnesium Slider looks good, and wouldn't be much more expensive than the slide, especially since I wouldn't need to pay shipping to several different companies; which can be substantial savings in the end. I'll see about digging up more information about this thing.
Thanks everyone for the many opinions!
Charles; I had thought of ordering the Chuo Sekei linear slide posted above because of (a) the micrometer was side mounted, (b) I knew how to easily attaching it to a Wimberley long plate on the bottom and a Wimberley quick release clamp on top, and (c) it was less than 100$. However your warning about linear slides have now given me pause...
My problem right now is that I have a lever release clamp from RRS. I really like this clamp and it's absolutely great when I'm out shooting with my "normal" equipment. But of course, it's a pain which limits me and ends up costing more when stuff like the Novoflex L rack comes along.
As for what I plan to use it with, at the moment it's a D90 with reversed lenses. With a linear stage, I would add a fairly long plate to the bottom of the stage, used for coarse movement and to which I would attach the flash on it's articulating (ram-mount) arm. Last time I checked, the whole hand held rig weighs a little more than 2 kg. My tripod head, a RRS BH-55 can certainly hold that without a problem.
But later I will be adding a "conventional" macro lens to my bag. I used to own a Sigma 105mm, but sold it planning to get a 200mm micro-nikkor. However that's when plans suddenly changed and I got a good deal on a 500mm instead! But, I miss having a dedicated macro lens, so that will be coming up in the future, but whether it's one of the 105mm or a 200mm micro-nikkors is currently undecided.
Finally; the Velbon Super Magnesium Slider looks good, and wouldn't be much more expensive than the slide, especially since I wouldn't need to pay shipping to several different companies; which can be substantial savings in the end. I'll see about digging up more information about this thing.
Thanks everyone for the many opinions!