Canon MP-E 65mm Question
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PaulFurman
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Canon MP-E 65mm Question
I'm assuming this lens is completely unusable on a Nikon because it has no aperture ring, the aperture is controlled from the body. Although perhaps there is an adapter for controlling aperture with Canon AF lenses on bellows like the Nikon Equivalent? I have no idea how the Canon EF mount works, are they all electronic aperture with no lever like Nikon lenses? The only Nikon lenses with electronic aperture are the new PC-E tilt/shift models.
Re: Canon MP-E 65mm Question
For mere mortals it is essentially unusable. If you had a Canon body, you could set the aperture using it, then move the lens to the Nikon. Or you could take one of the electronic pass through adaptors and wire it into a microprocessor that converts the Rx signals from Canonese to Nikonese and the Tx signals from Nikonese to Canonese.PaulFurman wrote:I'm assuming this lens is completely unusable on a Nikon because it has no aperture ring, the aperture is controlled from the body. Although perhaps there is an adapter for controlling aperture with Canon AF lenses on bellows like the Nikon Equivalent? I have no idea how the Canon EF mount works, are they all electronic aperture with no lever like Nikon lenses? The only Nikon lenses with electronic aperture are the new PC-E tilt/shift models.
There are other options for Nikons, like using a helicoid and various lens to get the same range. Search the forum on helicoid and you'll find several references to one that's currently available on ebay.
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PaulFurman
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I'm sure it's simple, cobble together an F-mount Kenko extension tube wired to an EF mount extension tube. Maybe doesn't even need a CPU, just figure out which wires to connect. 
Realistically, the simplest solution would be to cannibalize a broken Canon body leaving just the mount, shutter dial and top LCD plus enough guts & the battery to keep it alive. Turn it into a zombie slave.
Realistically, the simplest solution would be to cannibalize a broken Canon body leaving just the mount, shutter dial and top LCD plus enough guts & the battery to keep it alive. Turn it into a zombie slave.
I'd be very much surprised if Canon and Nikon used the same signals for aperture, autofocus, zoom, etc.PaulFurman wrote:I'm sure it's simple, cobble together an F-mount Kenko extension tube wired to an EF mount extension tube. Maybe doesn't even need a CPU, just figure out which wires to connect.
Realistically, the simplest solution would be to cannibalize a broken Canon body leaving just the mount, shutter dial and top LCD plus enough guts & the battery to keep it alive. Turn it into a zombie slave.
Don't forget the MP-E 65 is just a very good (excellent) lens on the end of helicoid that costs around $1000. With a couple of hundred dollars for a helicoid and a set of Kenko tubes, you can duplicate it plus have the advantage of using multiple different lens.
Great young* minds, Mr Furman ...! http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=7221
Getting the aperture information into the camera would be nice too, but I think I could live without that.
Paul you may be interested in the very cheap Chinese extension tube sets which are on ebay for around $6. They have one camera bayonet fitting and one lens bayonet fitting, with simple threaded connections between the tubes you swap out, in between. I bought two sets for different mounts from one supplier, and both use 57mm intermediate threads. Charlie reports that his set look like 57mm too.
So, one could go from
Canon lens to
Canon Kenko to
Canon Chinese with wires and electrickery inside, to
Nikon Chinese with wires and electrickery inside, to
Nikon Kenko to
Nikon body.
It seems the cheapo 42mm tubes are 42 all the way, which is a pity, for adaptation uses. Whether the above tubes' 57mm thread is the same pitch as a filter thread, for which step rings are limited but available, I don't know.
I've spent some time scouting the net for Canon or Nikon interface data, but not found much of use. There may be something on Nikonians (pay)site.
DaveW is our resident #1 finder for things like that!
http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html Bjorn is the kinda guy who may have the knowledge at his fingertips. If you dig you'll find he puts chips in old lenses. I HAVE just sent him an email.
Some insight into the Nikon connections is here
http://www.foolography.com/free-stuff/modify-tc-16a/
where all sorts of possibilities raise their head. Not a bad converter, I have one. It only "worked" properly with obsolete film cameras (models which I have) but if you put any lens on it you get a (variable, from zero)focus shift like a close-up lens, and of course the medium magnification. Neat.
I've got a broken AF film body, working never-to-be-used-ones, and a 35-70AF which might as well be broken up for all the use it is. Couple of oscilloscopes, and not enough time.
On the subject -ish of helicoids, look at the Olympus 65 - 115 sliding auto tube. Would be good with those tasty Olympus bellows macro lenses on the front?
* Oops I forgot in the other thread the age connotation that "geezer" has in the US. UK side it's another word for a general purpose male, like "bloke", "chap", "fellow", "sport", and so on. See what I mean, mate? I believe you have a more appropriate term, "Dude"?
But it's that auto diaphragm which makes such a difference when you're propped up on one elbow under a bush...elf wrote:the MP-E 65 is just a very good (excellent) lens on the end of helicoid
Getting the aperture information into the camera would be nice too, but I think I could live without that.
Paul you may be interested in the very cheap Chinese extension tube sets which are on ebay for around $6. They have one camera bayonet fitting and one lens bayonet fitting, with simple threaded connections between the tubes you swap out, in between. I bought two sets for different mounts from one supplier, and both use 57mm intermediate threads. Charlie reports that his set look like 57mm too.
So, one could go from
Canon lens to
Canon Kenko to
Canon Chinese with wires and electrickery inside, to
Nikon Chinese with wires and electrickery inside, to
Nikon Kenko to
Nikon body.
It seems the cheapo 42mm tubes are 42 all the way, which is a pity, for adaptation uses. Whether the above tubes' 57mm thread is the same pitch as a filter thread, for which step rings are limited but available, I don't know.
I've spent some time scouting the net for Canon or Nikon interface data, but not found much of use. There may be something on Nikonians (pay)site.
DaveW is our resident #1 finder for things like that!
http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html Bjorn is the kinda guy who may have the knowledge at his fingertips. If you dig you'll find he puts chips in old lenses. I HAVE just sent him an email.
Some insight into the Nikon connections is here
http://www.foolography.com/free-stuff/modify-tc-16a/
where all sorts of possibilities raise their head. Not a bad converter, I have one. It only "worked" properly with obsolete film cameras (models which I have) but if you put any lens on it you get a (variable, from zero)focus shift like a close-up lens, and of course the medium magnification. Neat.
I've got a broken AF film body, working never-to-be-used-ones, and a 35-70AF which might as well be broken up for all the use it is. Couple of oscilloscopes, and not enough time.
On the subject -ish of helicoids, look at the Olympus 65 - 115 sliding auto tube. Would be good with those tasty Olympus bellows macro lenses on the front?
* Oops I forgot in the other thread the age connotation that "geezer" has in the US. UK side it's another word for a general purpose male, like "bloke", "chap", "fellow", "sport", and so on. See what I mean, mate? I believe you have a more appropriate term, "Dude"?
I know it's fun playing but if you were serious about an MPE-65 suspect it would be easier and cheaper just to buy a consumer canon body to go with it
Brian v.
Brian v.
www.flickr.com/photos/lordv
canon20D,350D,40D,5Dmk2, sigma 105mm EX, Tamron 90mm, canon MPE-65
canon20D,350D,40D,5Dmk2, sigma 105mm EX, Tamron 90mm, canon MPE-65
I agree with Brian, even though I am a dedicated Nikon user. If you want to use an MPE-65 just get a cheap secondhand Canon DSLR body off EBAY, that's the cheapest form of adapter available. It would probably work better in the end and might even be cheaper than all the bodges and time spent making something perform a task badly using the proper equipment would avoid.
Don't tell anybody else, but Canon's and Nikon's are about equal in image quality anyway, so no point in sticking to one over the other for that reason. If you tell anybody else though I will deny I said it, even if broken on the rack!
DaveW
Don't tell anybody else, but Canon's and Nikon's are about equal in image quality anyway, so no point in sticking to one over the other for that reason. If you tell anybody else though I will deny I said it, even if broken on the rack!
DaveW
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PaulFurman
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Chris, no problem dude :-)
I'd never heard that meaning, here it used to be fellow, fella, or I guess guy would work best in the context you used.
I was being a bit sarcastic about the zombie slave idea but also fun to play with what might be possible. Nikon bodies do now support the notion of electronic aperture control so it might be easy... a reverse engineer at Sigma would probably be able to figure it out.
In the mean time, the helicoid idea is not bad, the old Canon 35/2.8 with RMS thread goes to 2.5x with a couple extension tubes plus a nearly flat adapter adding up to 45mm and beyond that it's impractical hand held anyways so the bellows is fine. Zork makes something called Mini Makro Mount for $230 which looks like it might work. http://www.zoerk.com/ but by the time you add all that up with an old Oly lens or something it ends up costing more than the MP-E and manual aperture
I'd never heard that meaning, here it used to be fellow, fella, or I guess guy would work best in the context you used.
I was being a bit sarcastic about the zombie slave idea but also fun to play with what might be possible. Nikon bodies do now support the notion of electronic aperture control so it might be easy... a reverse engineer at Sigma would probably be able to figure it out.
In the mean time, the helicoid idea is not bad, the old Canon 35/2.8 with RMS thread goes to 2.5x with a couple extension tubes plus a nearly flat adapter adding up to 45mm and beyond that it's impractical hand held anyways so the bellows is fine. Zork makes something called Mini Makro Mount for $230 which looks like it might work. http://www.zoerk.com/ but by the time you add all that up with an old Oly lens or something it ends up costing more than the MP-E and manual aperture
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Charles Krebs
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Elf...
And while it's fun to ponder the possibilities of cross-brand mounting, if you've really got a desire for this lens I agree with Brian and Dave (and others)... get a used Canon body. You can get a used 450D for between $250-300. (That will also get you the "electronic first shutter curtain" in live view... a great feature for high mag work when tripod or stand mounted).
Not exactly. The 65MPE does have "floating" internal elements that are supposed to optimize image quality at the various magnifications. And at the magnifications it provides (1X-5X) the auto-diaphragm capability is a pretty big deal. (It's sort of ironic, but it's at the much higher magnifications where we stop down very little to avoid diffraction, and an auto-aperture becomes less important).Don't forget the MP-E 65 is just a very good (excellent) lens on the end of helicoid that costs around $1000. With a couple of hundred dollars for a helicoid and a set of Kenko tubes, you can duplicate it plus have the advantage of using multiple different lens.
And while it's fun to ponder the possibilities of cross-brand mounting, if you've really got a desire for this lens I agree with Brian and Dave (and others)... get a used Canon body. You can get a used 450D for between $250-300. (That will also get you the "electronic first shutter curtain" in live view... a great feature for high mag work when tripod or stand mounted).
Got a reply from B.R.
All he knows of is the ring which Novoflex do to connect , Not really useful.
http://www.novoflex.com/de/produkte/mak ... eos-retro/
A second make body means everything different from angle-finder to file formats, software...
I found the pin connections for the canon mount, only.
I'll see how much a film eos body costs with a cheap lens.
It's presumably a serial data link with just a few bytes. Once connected to a logic analyser, it could probably be "cracked" in minutes!.
All he knows of is the ring which Novoflex do to connect , Not really useful.
http://www.novoflex.com/de/produkte/mak ... eos-retro/
A second make body means everything different from angle-finder to file formats, software...
I found the pin connections for the canon mount, only.
I'll see how much a film eos body costs with a cheap lens.
It's presumably a serial data link with just a few bytes. Once connected to a logic analyser, it could probably be "cracked" in minutes!.
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Charles Krebs
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- Location: Issaquah, WA USA
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ChrisR,
Unless you are one of the seven people who actually use the Canon or Nikon software for the raw files (just kidding folks!) it is no issue at all for Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, DxO and others... just files with a different extension. I'll give you the dedicated flash incompatibility. But other than that, I would think the inconvenience of the arrangement you hint at would be far greater than having a Canon body dedicated to 65 MPE.
... but if you must, here's a home-made version of the Novoflex to ponder...
http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/007m6Z
Oh yeah... I just remembered that a friend of mine had a Zeiss Contax N lens converted to Canon EOS. The key here is that it retained auto-aperture, metering and AF. The fellow who performed this "surgery" had to decipher just the things you will need to (at least from the Canon end of it). Start looking here:
http://en.conurus.com/
As someone who uses both the "C" and "N" brand I think you are overstating any issues.A second make body means everything different from angle-finder to file formats, software...
Unless you are one of the seven people who actually use the Canon or Nikon software for the raw files (just kidding folks!) it is no issue at all for Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, DxO and others... just files with a different extension. I'll give you the dedicated flash incompatibility. But other than that, I would think the inconvenience of the arrangement you hint at would be far greater than having a Canon body dedicated to 65 MPE.
I think you just like the challengeI found the pin connections for the canon mount, only.
I'll see how much a film eos body costs with a cheap lens.
It's presumably a serial data link with just a few bytes. Once connected to a logic analyser, it could probably be "cracked" in minutes!.
... but if you must, here's a home-made version of the Novoflex to ponder...
http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/007m6Z
Oh yeah... I just remembered that a friend of mine had a Zeiss Contax N lens converted to Canon EOS. The key here is that it retained auto-aperture, metering and AF. The fellow who performed this "surgery" had to decipher just the things you will need to (at least from the Canon end of it). Start looking here:
http://en.conurus.com/