Different versions of EL-Nikkors

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Planapo
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Different versions of EL-Nikkors

Post by Planapo »

Hi folks,

Currently, I am looking for EL-Nikkor lenses to use reversed for macro.

Now, I´ve come across various versions. Especially of the 50mm f/2.8 there seem to be older ones with a black lens barrel made of metal. Others where the lens seems to be made of plastics are sold as new and are named with an additional N in a circle on their gold-coloured cardboard box.
Some of these latter plastic barrel versions have printed "Made in Japan" on the front of the barrel, others don´t, but instead "Made in China" on their otherwise similar fancy golden box! :?

Does anybody of you happen to know which version will perform better as a macro lens (reversed), or is there any difference at all, provided that the older ones are in perfect condition.

And which other focal lengths are recommendable for macro work?

Thanks in advance for your appreciated answers.

Best regards,
Betty

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Betty,
While I strongly recommend the 50/2.8 EL-Nikkor (not the 4-element 50/4) I have no experience comparing the various "versions". They are all 6-element/4-group designs. The one I use is the "N" version, made in Japan.

A quick search of Nikon's Japan website yielded the picture below. So it is obvious that there there was more than a "cosmetic" change in going to the "N" version. While I strongly suspect there would be little indiscernible difference between the older version and the "N" for your intended purpose, they don't make changes like this for no reason. So I would probably try to track down an "N", there are plenty of them out there.

The quality should be the same whether it was made in Japan or China... but I'll admit that if given a choice I'll take Japan.:wink:



Image

augusthouse
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Mr Wakimoto and Mr Mori

Post by augusthouse »

Hi Betty,
Just to add to Charlie's response , there is a small amount of information on Wiki regarding which EL Nikkors have 6 elements and which have 4 elements. I have included that information below; but like you I would welcome any further links to information that other readers could provide.

The EL-Nikkor series are 6-element, 4-group enlarging lenses, with the exception of the 50/f4 and 75/f4 (not sure about the 40mm)

40mm f/4N EL-Nikkor
50mm f/2.8N EL-Nikkor
*50mm f/4N EL-Nikkor†
63mm f/2.8N EL-Nikkor
*75mm f/4N EL-Nikkor†
80mm f/5.6N EL-Nikkor
105mm f/5.6 EL-Nikkor
135mm f/5.6 EL-Nikkor
150mm f/5.6 EL-Nikkor
180mm f/5.6A EL-Nikkor
210mm f/5.6A EL-Nikkor
300mm f/5.6 EL-Nikkor

† 4-element, 3-group enlarging lens

There is a difference in the filter thread size (34.5mm) of the older (chrome base) 80, and 105 ELs (not sure about the 63mm). The later versions have a 40.5mm filter thread - the same as the original 50/f2.8. This is important to know for reverse mounting.

Also, from what I have read, from 150mm upward the rear thread ceases to use the standard 39mm. I'm not certain about the front filter thread.

The EL Nikkors I currently own are the older versions 50/f2.8, 80/f5.6, 105/f5.6, 135/f5.6 and I also have one of the (N) versions 80/5.6. It's minimum aperture is 32 whilst the older 80mm has a minimum aperture of 45. The image quality is superb from edge to edge when reverse mounted.

I chose to buy the older lenses because they were made during and bordering a legendary time in Nikon's (Nippon Kogaku Japan) history. My intended purpose for these lenses is on a bellows for macro and close-up work.

Another point of interest is that the designer of the original EL-Nikkors was the lens wizard Mr. WAKIMOTO. The revised design was by Mr. MORI. At the time of the revision Mr. WAKIMOTO was still with Nikon and he was suitably impressed with the design revision by Mr MORI. Mr WAKIMOTO joined Nikon in 1948 and later became a director and then an adviser until 1993. I find that relevant for a number of reasons.

Some of the components in the later (let's call them Mr MORI EL-Nikkors) are made of Titanium - and this can sometimes be confused with plastic at first glance.

Also might want to have a look at the Red Book link below:

(scroll down the page to APO Nikkor and EL Nikkor)

http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroom/redbook-e/

Craig
Last edited by augusthouse on Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Epidic
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Post by Epidic »

You may find the newer versions are coated of multicoated. I have seen old Nikkors that are not coated.

As far as optical design, the newer the better. Computer aided design has significantly improved the quality of lenses. Manufacturing has also improved. All in all, the latest version of the El Nikkor should be the best.
Will

Planapo
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Post by Planapo »

Thank you very much for the helpful info you´ve provided, Charlie, Craig and Will!
I´ve just sucessfully hunted down a version of the "N" design \:D/. Made in Japan, of course! :mrgreen:

Best wishes,
Betty

augusthouse
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Comparison of two versions of EL-Nikkor 80mm

Post by augusthouse »

I did a comparison of the two versions of the EL NIkkor 80/5.6 and thought they may be of interest.

*Later note: I used a postage stamp (30x50mm) as the subject. The measurement from the end of the bird's beak to its eye is 2mm. The two images are full-frame uncropped.

The first image was taken using the older (Mr Zenji Wakimoto) designed EL Nikkor 80mm at f5.6 reverse-mounted on a Nikon bellows (fully extended). Shutter speed was 1/20th.

The second image was taken using the revised design (Mr Mori) designed EL Nikkor 80mm at f5.6 reverse-mounted on a Nikon bellows (fully extended). Shutter speed was 1/20th.

The images were taken one after the other and conditions were as near to identical (different thread adapters used) as required for the purposes of this quick comparison.

Both shots were taken at f5.6. When considering this factor there is a noticable difference?

*Later Note: I suppose the fact that the maximum aperture on the older ELs is 45 whilst the newer ELs go down to 32 needs to be considered - not to mention the additional amount of 'glass' in the originals. So if I were to use a shutter speed of 1/15th of a second for the older (Wakimoto) EL instead of 1/20th then the images would yield similar results? I'll try that. (later note:yep that worked in more ways than one - beautiful!).


Image

Image


The full stamp for reference. Wakimoto EL-Nikkor 135mm (f5.6, bellows extension 150mm, distance from lens to subject 465mm).

Image

I've also been comparing the tonal range of some of the Wakimoto EL-Nikkors in B&W.

Here is a screenshot of the Wakimoto EL-Nikkor 105mm in B&W (f5.6, bellows fully extended, distance from lens to subject 140mm, reverse mounted)

Image

Here is a screenshot of the Wakimoto EL-Nikkor 135mm in B&W. (f5.6, bellows fully extended, distance from lens to subject 225mm).

Image


Image

I'm learning as I go, so take this onboard when considering these comparisons. Just passing on what I know at the time of posting.

To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

Craig

Harold Gough
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Red Book Nikkor

Post by Harold Gough »

I don't think this link has been posted previously:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroom/r ... index.html

This may also be useful here:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html

Harold
My images are a medium for sharing some of my experiences: they are not me.

augusthouse
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Post by augusthouse »

I've seen an odd little 68mm EL-Nikkor :smt028 pop-up occasionally.
I'd like to know what the story is there?

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

Harold Gough
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Post by Harold Gough »

Craig,

I'm not sure that either of these will tell you much about the Nikkor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikkor

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Nikkor

This may go a little further:

http://www.helixcamera.com/darkroom/Len ... korEL.html

Some details of other enlarging lenses:

http://www.photographyboard.net/enlargi ... 72511.html

Harold
My images are a medium for sharing some of my experiences: they are not me.

augusthouse
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Location: New South Wales Australia

Post by augusthouse »

Thanks Harold,

The 68mm f/3.5 is in the list on the first and second link. It's the first time I've noticed it listed. So it is among the 6-element, 4-group designs.

The 63mm is high on my priority list and the 68mm if I ever come across one.

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

JGVilla
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Brochures for "old" and "new" El Nikkor

Post by JGVilla »

I have two brochures regarding El Nikkor enlarger lenses.
One from 1978 and one from 1983. They can be downloaded here:

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/jg.bui ... ochure.pdf

and here:

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/jg.bui ... or%20N.pdf

The first one is for all the "old" El Nikkor lenses and the second brochure for the newer N-type lenses.
All lens data and filter threats are included.

Hope you find these brochures useful.

-Jan-

JGVilla
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Post by JGVilla »

augusthouse wrote: The 63mm is high on my priority list and the 68mm if I ever come across one. Craig
As you can see from the brochures the 68mm El Nikkor never existed. Must have been a typo.

In the "old" series there was a 63mm f/3.5, and
In the N-types there was the 63mm f/2.8

In the N-range also existed a 135mm f/5.6 and a 150mm f/5.6 El Nikkor.

The old 63mm f/3.5 El Nikkor is the one which apparently has specifically good UV/IR characteristics.
That is what users report but from the technical data I don't know why.
I'm not into UV/IR photography. This particular one is rather expensive (occasionally on eBay).

-Jan-

augusthouse
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Location: New South Wales Australia

Post by augusthouse »

Hi Jan,
Welcome to the forum.

Thankyou for the link to the EL-Nikkor brochures. Excellent literature.

Regarding the mysterious EL-68mm. I have seen one :shock: , they do exist, which is why their particular story intrigues me.

Craig
To use a classic quote from 'Antz' - "I almost know exactly what I'm doing!"

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Jan, welcome aboard, and thanks for links to the information pages!

--Rik

JGVilla
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Location: Netherlands

Post by JGVilla »

augusthouse wrote:Regarding the mysterious EL-68mm. I have seen one :shock: , they do exist, which is why their particular story intrigues me.
Hallo Craig,

Well it is probably not a "standard" EL Nikkor enlarger lens, but Nikon made zillions of very high quality specialized lenses, amongst others APO-lenses, printer lenses, and lots more.
I will also be on the look out and if I find some more info I will let you know.

Rik,

Thank you for the welcome. I'm already a member for almost a year and I enjoy the information I find here very much.
I'm presently working on my micro setup. I find a lot of good info here.
When I'm a little further in the process I will post some of my setup.

Regards

-Jan-

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