My review of the "What is this Schneider?" lens

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mgoodm3
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Location: Southern OR

My review of the "What is this Schneider?" lens

Post by mgoodm3 »

These are my thoughts on the Schneider (40/5.6) lens that I got recently for quite cheap on the Bay. I wasn't terribly impressed by its performance once I figured out how to hook it to my bellows.

I finally settled on using a c-mount eyepiece adapter to hook it up. The eyepiece adapter had a screw to snug it up and is just a little bigger than the lens. I put a rubber band around the barrel to make it fit more snugly.

My first impression about this lens (at least my copy) was that there is a pretty bad problem with flare. It kills the contrast of the image and leaves a bright spot centrally in the image. There is a fair amount of spherical aberration at the edges.

Schneider 40/5.6 at a little less than 4:1
Image

Nikon 55/2.8 on a bellows at about the same mag
Image

Real-world images aren't as bad as the test pattern would suggest, but I think that I can do better with other combinations.

Image

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

mgoodm3,

I'm just curious... if you have a chance mount the lens as you did for the test and (without the camera attached) look into the back of the bellows as you move a bright light around in front of the lens. While I've seen lenses that, in themselves, cause flare like you've experienced, it would not be surprising to find a shiny surface that's causing the problem.

(I just set up a new lens adapter and found the same thing. Wasn't too hard to remedy.)

mgoodm3
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Southern OR

Post by mgoodm3 »

i will play around with it a little more, but it seems to have a lot more flare than my other lenses in similar lighting situations.

I can decrease it with a dark cloth across the side with the light - as I did with the image of the coin I provided - but it doesn't go away fully.

mgoodm3
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Southern OR

Post by mgoodm3 »

There do seems to be some shiny bits in the C-T adapters that I am using to hook this lens up. Now I gotta figure out how to de-shine those surfaces - maybe sandpaper.

I feel like this issue may be a combination of more flare than typical with this lens and shiny bits in the adapters/bellows since I have used other lenses with this combo before and didn't run into this much glare.

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Another possibility to consider is that this lens emits light over a wider angle than the other lenses did. It might be that the shiny bits of the adapters were not illuminated by the other lenses.

--Rik

mgoodm3
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Southern OR

Post by mgoodm3 »

At present my C-T adapter is a big clunky thing with shiny bits inside. There is a much more compact C-T adapter that may help alleviate the problem somewhat. I will also have to see if there are any Tmount objective adapters out there. If I can shortern the adapters I can see what happens at much lower magnifications and minimal extension (how big of an image circle)

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

With bellows employing all sorts of lenses and adapters I've really seen some egregious examples of images ruined by flare with DSLR's. (It 's always been an issue but it needs more attention with digital). So I've become rather obsessive about addressing this issue with my set-ups.

Used on a bellows, many of these lenses project an image that is much larger than needed and this reflects off of any shiny or flat, smooth surface that may be present.

One microscope objective I tried had a bright chrome ring visible from the back at the base of the screw thread. On a microscope nosepiece this is "covered" when mounted. But on one of my bellows adapters it was visible from inside the bellows. Images were a flare disaster. As soon as I blacked out that "ring" the images were fine. (In this case the only light that could possibly hit that ring was light that had been reflected back to it by the sensor/anti-aliasing filter!)

There are several things that can be done to battle flare. Painting certain surfaces with a good flat black paint can help. (I've always used Krylon Ultra Flat Black #1602. But recently all I see in the stores are "Flat Black #51602". I haven't tried that yet, but I sure hope they have not changed the product itself!)

A simple but extremely effective technique is to insert a "flare cut" diaphragm inside the bellows. (Often seems most effective if positioned toward the front, at the point where the bellows material begins). After taking some measurements I'll print patterns onto a thin, stiff, (solid) black paper. The patterns look something like this:
Image
(The rectangular shape would only be used in locations where it would follow the camera's vertical/horizontal orientation... like inside a T-mount)


Be sure to cut the inside aperture with a razor or circle cutter... you want a nice clean sharp edge.

Another hugely effective method is to use a black "flocked" material on problematic interior surfaces. (Something like the material you'll see in certain Canon lenses). The best I have found is here:
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/flock.htm
(One caveat... I was initially hesitant to use such a material in a bellows with digital cameras. I was concerned that if it "shed" fibers they might reach the sensor and necessitate frequent cleaning. This material doesn't appear to "shed". But when it is cut some fibers are released. I try to thoroughly "blow out" any surface treated with this material before using a camera. I've not experienced any problems, but mention this concern because I know some are extremely cautious about such matters).

And last, if the working distance and set-up allow, rigging some type of lens shade can help.

Charlie

mgoodm3
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Southern OR

Post by mgoodm3 »

I did find a more compact C to T adapter which should help (also has the right threads so I don't need any extra male/male or female/female adapters as I have to use now.

I also found a Tmount microscope eyepiece adapter which gets you straight to a tmount, minimizing the adapters needed to get to the bellows.

I will update this thread when I get these and play around with them.

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