Speedlight in the fiber optic illuminator?

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:05 am

Hi everyone,
recently I have purchased a "second-hand" illuminator with a 100W lamp and two gooseneck arms.
I'm very pleased with it. It is heavy and sturdy like a gas tank and its light is clear and copious (and I haven't change White Balance using the power controller).
But, nonetheless I can't shot using shutter times shorter than 1/30 sec (also 1/4 sec at 20x with the Minolta 12.5mm). Too much slow!
Yesterday, I was thinking: but could I use a speedlight in addition to the continuous light?
That is: using a semi-reflecting mirror (50%-50%) adequately positioned, can I focusing using the continuous light and taking photos adding the speedlight in the light path?
Is it somehow doable or I'm turning into Wile E. Coyote?

In attached, some pics of my illuminator.

Ciao

Toni

Harold Gough · Post by **Harold Gough** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:06 am

I assume that by "speedlight" you mean electronic flash.

The considerations are no different from mixing flash with daylight, except that the relative intensity of flash and the ambient light will probably be reversed. If you can do one with your camera you can do the other.

Harold

g4lab · Post by **g4lab** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:10 pm

Those two aspheric condenser lenses are gorgeous! They probably block some infra red too. You should rig up a system like Charles shows with a straight line flash tube going in front of the quartz halogen lamp. Or maybe a U shaped tube behind it or a spiral coming right down over it. Many ways you could skin that cat.

Put the flash tube on a slider that you can remove or back out when you don't need it. Maybe between the two condenser lenses.

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:21 pm

Hi Harold,
I need say more (sorry for my bad english

).
I'd like to combine electronic flash and halogen light in the same illuminator, using somewhere about a semi-reflecting mirror that guides the lamp light into the optic fibers. So I can use the halogen light as focusing and modelling light and the electronic lamp as phototographing light (using 1/250 sec.).
The problem is essentially of mechanical nature: how to guide the flash light into the fiber optic...
And, if I remember, there is something similar by Novoflex.

Ciao

Toni

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 pm

g4lab wrote:Those two aspheric condenser lenses are gorgeous! They probably block some infra red too. You should rig up a system like Charles shows with a straight line flash tube going in front of the quartz halogen lamp. Or maybe a U shaped tube behind it or a spiral coming right down over it. Many ways you could skin that cat.

Put the flash tube on a slider that you can remove or back out when you don't need it. Maybe between the two condenser lenses.

Hi g4lab,
excellent suggestions, thanks.
I'd like to use at the same time halogen light (to focus) and flash light (to shot). But inside the illuminator there is too much heat and not enough space. This is the reason why I have thought up a semi-reflecting mirror positioned at 45° and a relatively far speedlight.
But the space is not enough!!!

Ciao

Toni

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 pm

There may be enough space between the adjustable aperture and the condenser, at the left of your fourth picture. At that position, the mirror only needs to be about as big as the end of the fiber bundle. But it will take some careful optics to collimate the light from an external flash into a tight enough beam to hit the mirror and get decent efficiency coupling into the fiber.

The solution that g4lab mentions might be easier to make work. Leave everything as it is for focusing. When it is time to use the flash, then turn off the halogen bulb to avoid heat problems, and slip a small flash tube just in front of it. BTW, g4lab, can you give a link to the "system like Charles shows"? I remember the post, but I can't find it quickly. Thanks!

Toni, yes, there are some elements of Wile E. Coyote in this solution. Good observation!

--Rik

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:43 pm

rjlittlefield wrote:...BTW, g4lab, can you give a link to the "system like Charles shows"? I remember the post, but I can't find it quickly...
--Rik

I'm not finding it anything...grrrr!!! I'm searching in the whole forum.
Charles...Help me! Here, in Italy, it's almost midnight and tomorrow I have go to work

Ciao

Toni

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:46 pm

It's on Charlie's website.

http://www.krebsmicro.com/microsetup2/index.html

Craig

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:50 pm

augusthouse wrote:It's on Charlie's website.

http://www.krebsmicro.com/microsetup2/index.html

Craig

Hi Craig,
thanx very much...I got lost in the forum

Ciao

Toni

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Yes, that looks pretty much like I remembered. It's the setup about 2/3 down the page.

In Charlie's setup, the flash tube is fixed in place. But the continuous illumination in that case is provided by a Luxeon K2 LED, which produces much less heat than a 100 watt halogen bulb.

I don't know whether flash tubes can withstand continuous exposure to high temperatures, so I would be worried about using a fixed mount next to Toni's existing bulb.

--Rik

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:02 pm

Rik wrote:

I don't know whether flash tubes can withstand continuous exposure to high temperatures, so I would be worried about using a fixed mount next to Toni's existing bulb.

Yes. It is an alternative approach without halogen integration.

I'd like to have a look inside one of the Novoflex MacroLight Plus fiber optic halogen/flash units. It appears they are using a similar method to Toni's desired outcome. The speedlight sits on top and you turn a dial which must rotate a mirror assembly so as to be able to alternate between halogen or flash output.

Now who do I know that has one of those, hmmm.

Craig

Tonikon · Post by **Tonikon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:08 pm

Yes, Rik...
I am still in favour of a semi-reflecting mirror, despite of alignment problems; better about 30/70: I prefer to lose in speedlight power (more powerful) than continuous light.
But where can I find a semi-reflecting mirror? Can I buy it or have I to dismantle something ?

But now my face is fallen out the keyboard...snore snore

Ciao

Toni

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:48 pm

Toni,

I've used a similar setup with regard to speedlights and fiber optic cables at the link below.

I use two separate units and alternate the cable between them. Halogen to focus, speedlight for shooting. I intend to make a more streamline version.

It's not evident in the setup images but my homemade 'flashbox' does have a top that is set in place when in use.

This is an older picture of my setup.
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... nor+cacica

Craig

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:28 am

In regard to the Novoflex solution....There must be a right-angle prism or beam bender in there somewhere?

Craig

dmillard · Post by **dmillard** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:10 am

augusthouse wrote:In regard to the Novoflex solution....There must be a right-angle prism or beam bender in there somewhere?

Craig

The Novoflex Macro Light has a front surface mirror that rests against the ceiling of the housing when the halogen lamp is in operation, providing a clear path from this source to the fiber optic light guides. Rotating the side knob flips the mirror down 45 degrees to reflect the light from the flash instead, and trips a switch that cuts off the halogen bulb, although the cooling fan continues to run on a separate circuit. It would be fairly easy to construct a functionally similar (and far less expensive) unit.

David