Unusual Life Form...maybe?

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:23 pm

Well if not, it is unusal to me. Here of late as you know, I have had an unexpected interest develop in lichens. As the days have passed this unwarrented obsession, as I now refer to it, has spawned a lichen collecting and photographing frenzy. While examining a new specimen this evening, that was collected from earlier in the day, I ran across something unusual. Something that I have never before observed but I am sure there are some Lichenologist that have ran across them and know what they are. At first glance I thought..."a tick!" To small to be a tick, I think anyway but maybe I could be wrong. I found another also among the apothecia of the lichen (second image) and the one dead center of another apothecium (first image).

Meiji EMZ-13TR
Sony DSC-W5
1/4 sec. @ f/2.8 ISO 100 EV +-.3

Meiji EMZ-13TR
Sony DSC-W5
1/5 sec. @ f/2.8 ISO 100 EV +0.3

As my interest grows in these unusual life forms, I am finding them to be quite entertaining and my research on them has turned up another interesting fact. Lichenology is slowely but surely diminishing from the field of scientific study. In fact Lichenologist are becoming a rare breed and the study of lichens is rarely found in todays university texts. This seems to have set off an alarm among some botonists and the need of lichen study, so it seems, is indeed somthing that should not be put to rest. Further reading on these life forms have revealed that they are indeed a most useful bioindicator and do play an important role in medical studies to develop antibiotics and to aid in cancer research. Amazing how important these little seemingly unimportant organisms are.

beetleman · Post by **beetleman** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:39 am

Very alien looking creature Ken...Does it move when you poke it? Lichenologist are becoming a rare breed because there is probably not much money or grants in the field which seems to run in some fields. The people that have a special love for their field are the only ones left.

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:16 am

I thought about taking it and placing it under the objectives of the Axiostar for a much closer and more detailed observation and photograph but I did not want to disturb the substrate on which the lichen sample is attached. The sample is quite beautiful in its geometry and I would hate to blemish it. I have forwarded a couple of photos to a friend of mine at Harvard, to pass around and see if any of the learned ladies and gentlemen of that prestiguous institution know what it is. I did not poke or prod at it but the thought did come to mind, however, if I destroy it or harm it in so doing, all would be lost. Thanks Doug.

Wim van Egmond · Post by **Wim van Egmond** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:51 am

That looks weird:) I think it is some sort of mite.

Wim

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:07 pm

I thought of mites too Wim but unless mites have nine or more legs, I dunno. Really a strange creature. It might just be a germinating spore but I am not sure of that either. Maybe some of the folks at Harvard will know, then again maybe not.

Thanks Wim

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:06 pm

I am bringing this post back because I would like to share with you some information concerning the creature resting in the center of the apothecia of this lichen.

I submitted this image along with one other to a contact of mine who is the assistant curiator at the Harvard Herbarium and asked if she would, if she had the chance or time, to pass it around and to see if anyone there knew what it was.

At the moment some scientists there are stumped, along with a lichenologist and a Russian scientist. Seems it has produced a small amount of interest and the image has now been referred to some other scientists to see if an ID can be made. The Russian thought that it might not be a zoological specimen but the "legs" of this thing he referred to as being cilia, which lichens do have cilia.

It is going to be interesting to see how this all turns out. Not only have I found this...whatever it is, on this particular lichen but on a couple of other lichen species as well. With the ATBI (All Taxa Biodiversity Inventory) going on at or in, the Great Smokey Mountains National Park (GSMNP), not to far away, it would be nice to have stumbled upon something to contribute. I do not have my hopes up, I am sure someone may identify it but I am sort'a keeping my fingers crossed.

beetleman · Post by **beetleman** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:21 pm

Ken, do you still have this specimen in your collection? I would see if they are still there....if not I would look under your bed

Are these pictures at 40x?

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:43 pm

Yeah I still have it around Doug, the image is at about 50 or 60X I believe, I did not notice when I took it. I really need to keep better notes. I am going to feel quite foolish if this turns out to be nothing or a hub cap from someones old Buick.

beetleman · Post by **beetleman** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:37 am

Why would you feel foolish. You found something you have never seen before and you asked for help for an ID. I think that is the "Scientific Way"
I am sure "Hey, take a look at this, what do you think" has been said before many great discoveries in science. Your right, it could be nothing, but as a scientist, if you didn`t ask, you would never know.

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:09 am

That is quite true Doug, we never need to stop asking questions

. I was really surprised that, so far, no one at Harvard knew what this thing was, especially a lichenologist, not that I am being critical of their knowledge about such organisms as lichens, I just thought or assumed that they were the folks with all the answers. I tend to think rather highly of institutions such as Harvard and others and the people who work in them as do probably others and I guess we tend to put them on a pedestal to look up to. Anyway I feel that there is someone who may know what it is and if not maybe someone could point me in the right direction to research and identify what ever it is. I don't think it is anything that is going to be especially noteworthy but you never know.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Doug.

Cyclops · Post by **Cyclops** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:06 am

Im not sure of the magnifications used here but it couldnt be a friend of yours could it, i.e a type of Myxo?

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:35 pm

Well anything is possible at this point Cyclops but I really don't think it could be a myxo. Thanks!

Ken Ramos · Post by **Ken Ramos** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:30 am

Well I got a reply back fromt the U. of Harvard as to what this is or might just be.

Good Morning Ken,
Here goes. Got a message from Doug Greene who said, " These look like lichenicolous fungi on the apothecia. To go to a further level of species identification I'd need to have a sample for a microscopic examination. However, it looks like it's on a Lecanora hybocarca,apothecia, so that will narrow down the possibilities."
Also found out that these fungi are "stuff dreams are made of" from the big ol' Lichenologists such as, Dr. David L. Hawksworth CBE of the UK, who I hear is fascinated by these least explored fungi. You also might email the guys at the great Humbolt Institute in Maine. They're at: humboldt@nemaine.com

The email was recieved from Julie Shapiro at the Harvard Herbarium, who has been a great help in identifying this thing by taking the time to pass around the photographs and ask questions for me. Thanks again Julie!

Cyclops · Post by **Cyclops** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:07 am

Hey maybe you might have found something new here, now that would be neat!

Maybe Acariopsis ramosii

(Acariopsis = looks like a mite)

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:50 pm

Fascinating! Thanks for running this one to ground and letting us know how it came out.

--Rik