Granite Surface Plate

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

Deanimator
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

Chris S. wrote:I'm no expert in painting metal (prefer powder-coating for my rigs), but have used primer and paint on other steel projects. Here are some thoughts for your specific case: If the primer in your bad spots is intact, I'd get some very fine steel wool (such as 00--AKA "double ought" steel wool), and use it to scrub off any loosely-attached paint. I'd also use it to gently challenge the primer, to make certain it is adhering well. If the primer is good, I'd repaint with a couple of thin layers of paint on top of the primer. If the primer is bad, I'd remove the primer, clean the metal, reprime, let the primer dry, reprime again as a second coat, let it dry, then add a couple thin layers of metal paint.
Would you use brush or spray? You know what the weather has been like recently. I don't have any place outside of the apartment to do spray painting that's protected from rain.
Deanimator wrote:Even with the handles, it's a bear to move. I'll probably bring in from the car tomorrow morning and lean it against something so that I can get the screws and T-nuts installed so that I can slide the 80/20 on and tighten it down.
Chris S. wrote:I hear you! My rig (plate plus other stuff) is about 87 pounds. It has nice handles, but it's not easy to move. But how much harder would it be without handles??
It's a real chore to move around for sure. Fortunately, it's going to live on the pipe table, only rarely being moved. I'll probably make other arrangements for doing still life, since movement is FAR less of a problem.

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Deanimator wrote:Would you use brush or spray? You know what the weather has been like recently. I don't have any place outside of the apartment to do spray painting that's protected from rain.
I'd use a brush, as I prefer the control this provides as opposed to spray. (But again, let me emphasize that I'm by no means an expert painter--very far from it.)

And yes, I'm aware that Ohio has recently had a very rainy spring.

For the record, if I were building your rig, I'd have had it powder-coated. This process is not difficult nor expensive to find in our area. And a powder-coated steel surface is more durable than a painted one.

--Chris S.

mawyatt
Posts: 2497
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Chris S. wrote:Also, if the Sorbothane isn't sufficiently loaded, it won't dampen as effectively. My sense (IIRC), from running and re-running calculations using Sorbothane's free software, is that properly selected and arranged Sorbothane should be deformed, under normal load, by about 20-25 percent. More deformation will break down the Sorbothane; less will reduce vibration mitigation. (Again, IIRC.)

Many members of this forum have described what sounds like blindly buying Sorbothane feet, without running calculations to make sure they were buying the size, shape, durometer rating, and number of feet appropriate for their rig. However, Deanimator is saavy and careful, so I'm hopeful he has done this.

Also, Sorbothane headquarters, in Ravenna, Ohio (USA) are just an hour away from Deanimator's home. I'm even closer to Sorbothane--maybe 25 minutes. Sometime back, I called Sorbothane's engineers with questions about how best to use their products to dampen my rig. They were friendly and helpful, and suggested I bring the rig in so they could help me set it up properly. While I didn't ask about price, I got the impression that they weren't looking for consulting fees--just nice guys looking to help a customer, and interested in what we're doing with these rigs of ours. So my sense was that I'd just pay for parts needed, with the advice thrown in for free. Since I've been doing fine with no dampening whatever, I haven't taken them up on their offer (I live in a forest and work in a basement--very quiet, vibrationally.)

This said, I'd like to meet the vibration engineers at Sorbothane, in hopes of learning from them. Deanimator, if you ever decide to pay them a visit, mind if I tag along? :D

--Chris S.
Chris,

Good point, Sorbanthane is designed to operate within a given loading range. Thor Labs has the recommended loading range for the feet they offer for their optical bases, and that's what I've used.

Good stuff IF used properly.

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

Chris S. wrote:For the record, if I were building your rig, I'd have had it powder-coated.
For the record, I'd have preferred to have the whole job done by somebody who knew what he was doing!

Unfortunately, everything went off the rails after I picked up the plate. I wasn't counting on my fabricator being abducted by aliens.

I actually asked for a couple of quotes for powder coating and either got no response or no quote.

This project has dragged on for several YEARS trying to find a deal on an appropriately sized optical breadboard. I was just getting tired of waiting.

Based on your advice, this configuration should do pretty well, despite my mechanical incompetence.

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

I've got the horizontal profile mounted and the plate up on the table on the Sorbothane, which APPEARS to be reacting according to what I've read. It looks pretty good.

I'm going to need to sand down the knob for the brake on the subject stage a little so that it completely clears the plate. As it is, it turns with a little resistance.

I still have to mount the rail and fabricate some kind of specimen holder for the subject stage. I was thinking of bolting my lab jack to the subject stage. Could there be vibration issues with this?

There's still a lot of work to be done, but thanks to everybody who had helpful advice and suggestions.

Deanimator
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

I'm working on a way to mount the Wemacro to the large lateral bearing.

The attachment method for the wooden post was entirely different, I'm having to work out a different method. I'll probably end up putting an Arca Swiss clamp on the bearing. I didn't have short enough 1/4"-20 button head screws to attach the clamp. I'll have to pick some up on the way home from work this morning.

My goal is to minimize the distance between the aluminum profile and the camera/bellows to minimize the lever force away from the profile.

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

I've got the Wemacro and camera on the mount. It's a little tall, but not really any taller than anybody else's that's got the same adjustment range.

I'm working on the subject stage now. Last night at work I ordered a 2" steel ball, a ring magnet and bags of #00 and #0 pinning needles (most of my potential subjects are tiny).

The lab jack seems to fit pretty securely on the small bearing, even when it's not bolted down.

I've got a bunch of previously fabricated hardware that I can cannibalize for parts.

I should be ready for initial pictures of the rig by Sunday.

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

The rig is working in horizontal mode.

I took a stack of a high speed burr from my Dremel kit. There was no diffusion and the step size was WAYYYY off for 10x, but it seems very stable. I also believe that the bellows length was off. I didn't have a metric tape measure handy to check it.

On the way in to work I picked up the 2" ball bearing, magnet and pins. I can already see that the ball and magnet are going to be great.

I'll probably work on details when I get home from work tomorrow morning.

Deanimator
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

I got my 2" ball bearing subject positioner assembled. I was hoping that the magnetism from the magnet would hold a brad type 1/4-20 t-nut to the surface of the ball bearing, but was surprised to find that the t-but is non-ferrous. I ended up hot gluing the t-nut to the ball. I cut a short length of 1/4-20 threaded rod and attached an alligator clip on the end. This I screwed into the t-nut.

The bellows were indeed way out of spec, so using a metric tape measure I set the proper 160mm length.

I added a foam cup diffuser.

I just started a 500+ image stack of the burr at 3u. I poured myself a vodka on the rocks and am waiting for the stack to finish.

There are still tons of "Canadian soldiers" on the back door of the apartment, so if the experiment with the burr works, I'll catch a few of them and see what happens.

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

I've finally got the rig working properly in horizontal mode.

The subject holder took a little work, since stuff doesn't really want to stick to stainless steel. I finally used a big lump of hot glue to stick a 1/4-20 tee nut to the stainless ball. A piece of 1/4-20 threaded rod screws into that and in turn an alligator clip is crimped onto that.

The bellows was definitely not set to the right length, so I fixed that. After a few pratfalls with the ball bearing and magnet subject holder (and dust on the sensor) I got the following result with the Amscope 10x finite, a very small high speed burr from my Dremel kit:

Image

mawyatt
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Post by mawyatt »

Your setup sounds impressive, and the result of some hard work!! Please post some images.

Regarding the subject mounting, the handy Wemacro 1/4-20 threaded subject holder can be made to work with the addition of a common male to male 1/4-20 adapter as shown. Just drill and tap a hole for 1/4-20 in the base, or wherever, and mount the Wemacro subject holder. Or mount a small ball-head and mount the Wemacro adapter to the ball head.

I use these all over this way, works very well :D

Best,

Image
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Deanimator
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio, U.S.A.

Post by Deanimator »

mawyatt wrote:Your setup sounds impressive, and the result of some hard work!! Please post some images.
I plan to post pictures once I do some cleanup.
mawyatt wrote:Regarding the subject mounting, the handy Wemacro 1/4-20 threaded subject holder can be made to work with the addition of a common male to male 1/4-20 adapter as shown. Just drill and tap a hole for 1/4-20 in the base, or wherever, and mount the Wemacro subject holder. Or mount a small ball-head and mount the Wemacro adapter to the ball head.

I use these all over this way, works very well :D

Best,

Image
I actually have the Wemacro holder. It was broken when it arrived, and since I was already using something else, I put it aside. I just dug it out and removed the broken bolt that held the legs on. And indeed mounted on a ball head, the clip mechanism is an alternative to my ball bearing and magnet mount. Thanks for the tip.

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