LUMIX DC-S1R

[Adalbert]

Hello everybody,
It seems to be the perfect camera :-)
Full frame, 47.3mp, focus-bracketing, post-focus, focus-stacking, electronic shutter, etc.
https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/c ... specs.html
What do you think about it?
BR, ADi

[Macro_Cosmos]

Specs are certainly attractive, looks great on a piece of paper. Let's see how the real thing plays out. I'm willing to give the Nikon Z cameras several iterations before I buy into it.

[Adalbert]

Hello Macro_Cosmos,
Yes, but I have been watching the development of the new features of the new cameras for long time and cannot decide which one should I buy.
Actually I’m still waiting for something from CANON like R but with 50mp , focus bracketing, full electronic shutter, 1/32000s and flash sync.
BTW, which one do you prefer Z6 or Z7 ?
BR, ADi

[gardenersassistant]

Hello everybody,
It seems to be the perfect camera :-)
Full frame, 47.3mp, focus-bracketing, post-focus, focus-stacking, electronic shutter, etc.
https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/c ... specs.html
What do you think about it?
BR, ADi

A couple of thoughts regarding post focus (I use 6K post focus on the G9).

What lens would one use on the S1R? The only native "macro" lens will be the 24-105 and that maxes out at 1:2. Will third party autofocus lenses work on the S1R? (Presumably they will, because of all the notes about APS-C lenses. Will Panasonic be making an adapter? Sigma more likely I suppose. For what mounts? And how well will they work? Especially version 1 of the adapter.)

And will third party AF lenses that do work with the S1R work for post focus on the S1R?. I have no reason to think the wouldn't btw, because unlike with Olympus focus bracketing which I believe is limited to certain (not many?) Olympus lenses, I get the impression that Panasonic is agnostic about lenses (apart from manual lenses of course) for post focus and focus bracketing.

The other thing is whether 8K will work for post focus. It isn't clear from the detailed spec.

The sensor is 3:2, 8368x5584.

6K Photo in 3:2 mode is 5184x3456, so presumably that is the size you would get for individual JPEGs extracted from a post focus video.

There is an 8K res 6464x4320 HLG photo mode. However, there is no indication as to whether this can be used for post focus. If it was, and given a suitable lens (I wonder if my Sigma 105 macro would work for example) then I might be interested in the S1R (The S1 has an HLG photo mode that uses the whole sensor, 5984x4000)

However,
6K on the G9 is 4992x3744
6K on the S1R in 4:3 mode (which is more my preferred aspect ratio) is the same 4992x3744
So no resolution increase there. Better pixels of course, but even so I don't know how attractive I would find the proposition, with the extra weight and, of course, the cost.

And in 4:3 mode the 8K res (assuming for the moment that it would work for post focus) would presumably be 5760x4320. Not sure this is enough extra resolution to add hugely to the attraction for me.

[Adalbert]

Hello Nick,

What lens would one use on the S1R?

I would say Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 5/10/20 with a Raynox DCR-150 as a tube-lens.

Will third party autofocus lenses work on the S1R?

I don’t use AF except bracketing with the microscope-lenses.
Hopefully I’ll be able to adapt my CANON EF 70—200L (the best tube-lens ever :-)

Post-focus would be interesting for me only with 8K and RAW-mode :-)

BTW, I have been waiting for the first comparison of the S1R vs. Z7.

BR, ADi

[mawyatt]

I've had the Nikon Z7 since it was introduced, and no complaints yet. Excellent camera in IMO, and works with all the legacy Nikon and 3rd party F mount lenses I have with the Nikon adapter

The new Z mount opens up a lot of options for future lenses, including the new Nikon Z mount S lenses, which are quite good (check the reviews). Since I have all Nikon bodies (D850, D800, D800E & D500) moving to another camera type wasn't an option, and even if I wasn't tied up with Nikon, the Z7 or Z6 would still be my selection, especially considering the new lenses and potential for the Z mount.

I haven't had the time to use the Z7 for stacking yet since the experimental S&S System has taken all my "free" time, and I've just taken on another assigned task to create an "On The Fly Zero Induced Vibration" focus stacking system. So the Z7 will have to wait, but it's my "go to" non-macro camera now with the 24-70 F4

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the modern cameras offered today, they are all that good.

Best,

[ray_parkhurst]

The 187MP high resolution mode has me wowed.

[Macro_Cosmos]

Hello Macro_Cosmos,
Yes, but I have been watching the development of the new features of the new cameras for long time and cannot decide which one should I buy.
Actually I’m still waiting for something from CANON like R but with 50mp , focus bracketing, full electronic shutter, 1/32000s and flash sync.
BTW, which one do you prefer Z6 or Z7 ?
BR, ADi

Currently, I lean towards the Z6. The high ISO performance is staggering, all around great camera. It's a better D750 and whatever replaces the D750 should be. The Z7 is too expensive, and it didn't really give me the excitement feel, contrary to the D850 announcement that hyped me up.

For the stuff we do on this forum though, the Z7 is preferable for the denser pixels thus more detail. Suppress the exposure time to within 1 second so hot pixels aren't an annoyance. I can't see good heat dissipation designs in the Z7. The IBIS mechanism is known to generate a lot of heat, thus contributing to many problems such as hot pixels and hjigher readout noise. My current exposure time is about 1-2 seconds (used to 5-6), when I upgrade my lighting with the surplus stuff I purchased in China, I should be able to get it to about half a second, thus making the Z7 ideal.

A shorter flange distance and bigger mount isn't about the weight savings. It makes designing fast primes and high quality, apochromatric performance lenses easier (thus cheaper to sell). Nikon is heading in the right direction with the mechanics of their mirrorless IMO and so is Canon. There's also FX sensors with 16bit ADCs being developed by Sony, the future is going to be both exciting and interesting.

For a "first time mirrorless fullframe", Nikon certainly did a solid job. I personally like their philosophy of being conservative with tech and only releasing "functional, fully refined products". The forced D1, development of AF lenses that Nikon previously deemed to be "noob tier, only scrubs need AF gitgud" and silly D750/D600 issues certainly taught them a good lesson.

[gardenersassistant]

Hello Nick,

What lens would one use on the S1R?

I would say Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 5/10/20 with a Raynox DCR-150 as a tube-lens.

I was wondering about what lens to use for post focus. It has to be an autofocus lens which the camera can control.* Hence my next question.

* Well I suppose that strictly speaking it doesn't have to be autofocus, but the camera does have to be able to control the lens' focusing mechanism, and presumably only autofocus lenses would provide that capability.

Will third party autofocus lenses work on the S1R?

Post-focus would be interesting for me only with 8K and RAW-mode :-)

I don't think you'll get raw post focus. I think they would have mentioned it if they were going to provide raw video.

I've been quite pleased with what I have been getting from 6K post focus MP4 using CineLike D.

[Lou Jost]

"unlike with Olympus focus bracketing which I believe is limited to certain (not many?) Olympus lenses, I get the impression that Panasonic is agnostic about lenses (apart from manual lenses of course) for post focus and focus bracketing."

No, Olympus focus bracketing (not to be confused with in-camera focus stacking) works on all MFT lenses, both Panasonic and Olympus. And Panasonic focus bracketing does not always work smoothly with Olympus lenses (diaphragm may open and close on each shot).

[Adalbert]

Hello Mike,
Yes Z7 is a fantastic camera, for sure.
But I belong to the CANONians and could buy one from Oly or Pana but not NIKON :-))
BTW, can you already show something about the ”On The Fly Zero Induced Vibration system” ?
BR, ADi

[Adalbert]

Hi Ray,
Yes, 187MP high resolution mode is a really nice feature.
BR, ADi

[gardenersassistant]

"unlike with Olympus focus bracketing which I believe is limited to certain (not many?) Olympus lenses, I get the impression that Panasonic is agnostic about lenses (apart from manual lenses of course) for post focus and focus bracketing."

No, Olympus focus bracketing (not to be confused with in-camera focus stacking) works on all MFT lenses, both Panasonic and Olympus. And Panasonic focus bracketing does not always work smoothly with Olympus lenses (diaphragm may open and close on each shot).

Thanks. It must have been Olympus in-camera focus stacking I read about.

Interesting about Panasonic and Olympus lenses. Fortunately focus bracketing works fine with an Olympus 60mm macro on my G80 and G9. (That said, I haven't used focus bracketing much since starting to use post focus a lot to derive images for stacking - using the Olympus 60mm macro on the G80 and now on the G9.)

[Lou Jost]

I really like that Oly 60 for fast stack capture. I prefer big files and full stack coverage so I stick with focus bracketing. With the newest Oly and its huge buffer, I imagine a stack would go very fast.

[mawyatt]

Hello Mike,
Yes Z7 is a fantastic camera, for sure.
But I belong to the CANONians and could buy one from Oly or Pana but not NIKON :-))
BTW, can you already show something about the ”On The Fly Zero Induced Vibration system” ?
BR, ADi

Understand. With the Z7 you can use all your Canon lenses since the flange distance is only 16mm, I think a third party already has a manual Z to Canon adapter available for under $100. I'm sure an AF/AE version will follow.

Anyway, worth considering.

Regarding the "On The Fly Zero Induced Vibration System", I don't want to deviate from this thread, but since it's your thread I guess it's OK to briefly describe.

The "On The Fly Zero Induced Vibration System" is in the works, I'm waiting on components and involved with writing the initial "proof of operation code" now. This is basically an experimental system to allow the fastest possible stacking in all axis on a given setup. The general idea is to not invoke the resonances and dynamic flexure of the system with a carefully controlled motor excitation parameters which involves the solution to some physical modelling equations with a controlled stimulus. I know this works in the electrical world since I did this many years ago with a controlled filter response to settle within a minimum time after a large input perturbation (step change is system gain for example), so believe the concept can be applied with the focus stacking rail system.

Best,