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Are any hyper-fast lenses hiding inside "machinery"

 
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1425
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:59 am    Post subject: Are any hyper-fast lenses hiding inside "machinery" Reply with quote

Only very (very very) indirectly related to macro gear, but I'd like to tap into the encyclopedic knowledge of the experts here. Admins, pls delete if considered too inappropriate. Thanks.

With the evident successes of salvaging super-high resolution lenses from copiers, scanners and other industrial gear, I wonder if any class of industrial/technical equipment might harbour super-fast lenses too (f/0.9 or faster). I'd want low reproduction ratio (i.e. FoV like ordinary camera lenses) capable of covering FF, but APS-C will do. I realise these may be fixed focus, which is bearable if working distance is feet or metres, not inches or mm. Ability to focus from close-ish to infinity would obviously be far better - even if it involved taking a screwdriver to something to make the adjustment.

Do such "industrial" fast lenses exist, and if so, for what applications? Where could I search for them?

Thanks in advance
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1723
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are indeed some of these around. Did you see the 65mm f/0.85 JML lenses that were for sale a while back? I think these are industrial lenses, but not sure the application. I have one of those sitting in a box waiting for time and interest to test it. It's big and heavy! I think Lou has put together a stable of such lenses, and I'm waiting for his tests (once he can get them home). One thing I've found with the few large aperture lenses I've tested is they tend to not be very well-corrected. I think that light gathering is a more important design consideration than high resolution/sharpness or flat field.
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dolmadis



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 515
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-35-4K-FAST-64mm-F-85-MACRO-LENS-Imperx-XIMEA-IMPERA-IMPERX-FF-CAMERA-Sony-/222749945261

64mm JML from the photos.

BR

John
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 2859
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as Ray mentioned, I have many of these super-fast lenses. The best-known ones come from x-ray machines, and these have been treated here:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35693&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Actually these lenses are often very well corrected, but they are usually highly optimized for particular magnifications and wavelengths. Results are usually quite disappointing when used outside their designed range, hence they have unjustly gained a reputation for being poorly corrected. It would be better to say that they are highly corrected but not for what we want....

Still, it seems there should be some fast lenses out there that are corrected across the whole range of visible light. Apochromatic telescope objectives come to mind. Imagine a pair of coupled telescopes , one twice the focal length of the other, to get 2x magnification! This is my next project....
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1723
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolmadis wrote:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-35-4K-FAST-64mm-F-85-MACRO-LENS-Imperx-XIMEA-IMPERA-IMPERX-FF-CAMERA-Sony-/222749945261

64mm JML from the photos.

BR

John


Thanks...64mm not 65mm.

That auction listing is great marketing! I bought mine for ~$50. Seems someone saw opportunity and bought a bunch of these.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seller writes stream-of-consciousness ads that seem to be very loosely based on reality. However, he does have some otherwise unobtainable lenses. He used to sell most of his lenses quite cheaply, and I had bought some from him. Some were in great physical shape but some were in bad shape, not noted in his descriptions.
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1425
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answers all.

Lou, I didn't realise your "lens collection" thread had grown so (and hadn't made the connection either). Lots of useful info and links in there. I'll work through that over the coming days.

I was aware of the x-ray lenses (Rayxar and De oude delft mods) but got cold feet on those. Good ones (no scratches on rear element) are pretty expensive and there are so many versions and configurations, I couldn't be sure what constituted a "complete" lens. Also, the aberrations are a little too strong for the "arty" photographic project I have in mind (near-impossible to correct in post too). But Lou's comment about them being corrected for one wavelength might help. I only intend to use one for still-life situations and monochrome output. So lighting the scene with green filters on could offer a get out.

The search will continue - though quite a lot better informed now. Thanks again.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beatsy, actually they are still often very cheap, and often in good condition. There are many for under $150. This is an example from a reliable seller whom I've used:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-XR-Heligon-68mm-F1-Lens-/223068129109
Remember to use these only coupled, face to face. Also watch the working distance; that is the problem with these lenses. I find that versions with larger rear elements tend to have longer working distances, but that is not a strict rule.

These lenses, when used properly, are aberration-free.

I hope to do some more tests soon. Some of my most promising ones are still in the US though...these are heavy, and the airlines made me remove some from my suitcase so they were left behind!
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Beatsy, actually they are still often very cheap, and often in good condition. There are many for under $150. This is an example from a reliable seller whom I've used:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-XR-Heligon-68mm-F1-Lens-/223068129109
Remember to use these only coupled, face to face. Also watch the working distance; that is the problem with these lenses. I find that versions with larger rear elements tend to have longer working distances, but that is not a strict rule.

Ta Lou. I don't want them for macro though, just a "normal" field of view and focus distance like an ordinary nifty fifty lens (for instance). I don't think coupling will achieve that easily, if at all, will it?

I accept there will be plenty of aberrations using them the way I intend. The spherical and distortion issues are fine (part of the "artistic effect"), but the colour aberrations could be problematic.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see. No, you can't couple them for that.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a guy that uses a lot of unusual lenses for weird bokeh effects:
http://toby-marshall.com/
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Lou Jost
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beatsy, to emphasize how cheap these can be, I just got a 75mm f/1.1 for $10 plus shipping. I was the only bidder...
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