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Self-adhesive flocking in long tubes. Aaaaargh!!
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1391
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Self-adhesive flocking in long tubes. Aaaaargh!! Reply with quote

I have a 100mm M42 extension tube that has a horrible gloss finish internally. Why anyone would ever make optical tubes like that is beyond me. But I need it to free up three shorter (much better) tubes and bought some self-adhesive flocking to fix it.

The pieces I cut sat inside very snugly with the backing on. Perfect fit. But the stuff clearly won't stay there permanently unless stuck down. My problem starts when I peel the backing off. How on earth do you get it positioned and stuck accurately after that? It's driving me nuts (I already mangled two pieces).

I'm about ready to give up and use a few blobs of glue to hold it in place with the backing on! Have I missed any trick(s) to do the job properly?

Thanks
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rolsen



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 76
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno what material you have, but I'm using ProtoStar Hi-tack and there's a manual for that:
http://www.fpi-protostar.com/ftp/fpinst.pdf

Method B: Applying Longitudinal Strips
Long and/or small diameter tubes can be difficult to work inside of. One good method for lining these tubes is to cut long strips that are individually applied along the length of the tube. Allow each strip to stick out beyond the tube by a small amount, and then trim them all at once with a razor knife when the tube is completely lined.

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dolmadis



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 500
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Came across this a few days ago.........

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DIY-FLOCKING-KIT-FLOCKED-DASHBOARD/dp/B078WG6JJ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533069973&sr=8-1&keywords=flocking%2Bkit&th=1

Now that the matter of flocking has come up again thought I would ask for views/opinions.

BR

John
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 2763
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dolmadis, I would worry that such flocking would inevitably leave some loose threads that will end up on the sensor.
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beats,

I had some success with Protostar by taking and positioning the tube vertically on a flat surface, then take the flocking backing off. Roll the flocking material into a smaller diameter cylinder and carefully slide into tube until the flocking hits bottom. Then allow flocking cylinder to expand onto insides of tube, use fingers to rub into sides for a secure mounting.

Now I use Beetle Black which has no backing (card stock) and use same techniques but with a couple small sections of double sided sticky tape used after everything fits.

Be sure to roll any flocking material with a sticky tube lint remover before installing.

Hope this helps,

Best,
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions all.

It's a no-name black velour flocking used for telescopes. Quite floppy with no stiff backing - about as stiff as copier paper with the backing removed. I got it from First Light Optics. Quite cheap actually, and it doesn't shed fibres (tested that with sticky tape on the surface - next to nothing pulled off) . It's good at absorbing shallow-angle incident light but not the blackest I've seen. It's dark enough and will do the trick though.

In the interim, I've solved the problem. I rolled the cut-to-size piece of flocking into a tube so it stayed at roughly the right diameter - just a little bit smaller. Then I peeled the backing up at each of the edges (the ones that butt together) and cut about 5mm of that backing off, leaving a thin strip of bare adhesive along each edge. Then I slid it into the tube and got it aligned and pressed into place (without sticking the edges). I smoothed down one sticky edge and worked back round, smoothing it all down until I reached the other edge. That dropped into place and stuck neatly too. Main thing is to be accurate with the sizing (wonderful thing, pi Smile ). Although the flocking isn't stuck all over, the majority that still has backing on stays pressed tight against the tube walls because the butted edges are anchored.

Perfect!
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your method sounds like it should work fine, although I've had the Protostar droop down after time (glue didn't stay in place).

The Beetle Black is card stock and pretty stiff, so rolls into a tube nicely and expands with enough "spring action" to stay in place without tape or glue. I just use a couple small double sided stick tape sections for "piece of mind".

However, it does have some loose fibers and needs to be rolled a couple times before installing.

Best,
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JohnyM



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a tip you might want to consider:
Im using black chalk spray for flocking (i use Montana MTN 94).
It's VERY matte black, i date to say perfect, but with significant drawback. After spraying it needs to be trated with pressurized air to remove "dust" or your sensor will get speckled (eazy to clean tho).
Also it's 0% waterproof, so dry-studio only. If it gets just a little wet it's gonna be black river.
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
Your method sounds like it should work fine, although I've had the Protostar droop down after time (glue didn't stay in place).

The Beetle Black is card stock and pretty stiff, so rolls into a tube nicely and expands with enough "spring action" to stay in place without tape or glue. I just use a couple small double sided stick tape sections for "piece of mind".

However, it does have some loose fibers and needs to be rolled a couple times before installing.

Best,

Actually, sticking it to springy card first sounds an even better solution. I have some thin black card too, so I'll try that for the next one. Thanks.

Now I have a couple of metre-wide rolls of the stuff (one slightly used), I've gone completely flocking mad Very Happy
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Beatsy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnyM wrote:
Just a tip you might want to consider:
Im using black chalk spray for flocking (i use Montana MTN 94).
It's VERY matte black, i date to say perfect, but with significant drawback. After spraying it needs to be trated with pressurized air to remove "dust" or your sensor will get speckled (eazy to clean tho).
Also it's 0% waterproof, so dry-studio only. If it gets just a little wet it's gonna be black river.

Interesting. But scary sounding (for my sensor).

I tried some super-matt black paint that came out a while ago (Black 2.0). It's not as good as flocking at low incidence angles and doesn't wear well. As an easy fix for "shiny bits" in a dry studio situation though, it's a very quick and convenient solution. They've since come out with a matt varnish to protect it, but I haven't looked into that. Original thread on the matt black paint here http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33766
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, I bought some of that Black 2.0 paint some time ago on your recommendation. It is very convenient and I use it often, though Protostar is much better on surfaces that are glare-prone (like the sides of lens tubes).
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou, Beats,

Here's a link to the Beetle Black stuff.

https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=beetle+black&start=15

Best,
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Beatsy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike,

Seems very impressively black, looking at Rik's pic of it compared to Protostar. Might have to get a little for "stock". Cheers.
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anoldsole



Joined: 27 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Beetle Black Cardstock Reply with quote

Has anybody used the beetle black cardstock specifically for flocking instead of as a background? I have found it to be the best black background I've ever used, but I still have some glare issues when using it in extension tubes when compared to my Pentax bellows. Anybody using it in their tubes with success?
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle Black Cardstock Reply with quote

anoldsole wrote:
Has anybody used the beetle black cardstock specifically for flocking instead of as a background? I have found it to be the best black background I've ever used, but I still have some glare issues when using it in extension tubes when compared to my Pentax bellows. Anybody using it in their tubes with success?


Yes I use it for tube flocking and backgrounds, I've used it on 42, 52 & ~58mm extension tubes. Be sure to roll it with a lint remover before mounting to capture any loose fibers.

Also should mention the ends of the Beetle Black card stock should be blackened with a black pen (Sharpie) if they are "exposed" to the sensor field of view.

Best,
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