Full electronic shutter

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mjkzz
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Full electronic shutter

Post by mjkzz »

Sony A7III in full electronic shutter mode and full frame mode + 2 studio strobes.

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Sony A7III in full electronic mode
Mid-Curtain Flash Triggering
Mitutoyo 5x
MJKZZ Ultra Rail
197 Images at 15um Step Size
Zerene Stacker

Saul
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Post by Saul »

Great result from your Mitu.
My objective's front lens surface:

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Saul
μ-stuff

Beatsy
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Re: Full electronic shutter

Post by Beatsy »

mjkzz wrote:Sony A7III in full electronic shutter mode and full frame mode + 2 studio strobes.
That came out really well. Even ignoring the front element damage, your Mitty looks like it's had a "fall or drop" more times than I've had hot dinners :) Amazing it works at all...

I use my A7rii in full electronic shutter mode on the macro rig too. On the A7rii that means dynamic range drops to 12-bit instead of the usual 14-bits when the shutter is used (rear curtain only with EFCS on usually). I assume the A7iii is like the A9 and delivers full dynamic range even with electronic shutter. Is that the case? I've run tests to see if I could detect any difference between 14-bit DR and 12-bit DR images, and couldn't. Probably only an issue if you need to push an underexposed image a lot, but fairly unlikely since we can control the light.

But - how can you use strobes? AFAIK, none of the Sony alpha series will fire them in full electronic shutter mode. When I (rarely) use strobes, I have to switch to EFCS mode so the rear curtain will trigger them.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Peter,

That Mitty looks like someone used it for a hammer :cry:

Are you using your mid-curtain flash control from your new Stand Alone Controller to allow full electronic shutter with the Sony?

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

mjkzz
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Post by mjkzz »

Saul wrote:Great result from your Mitu.
My objective's front lens surface:
Oh boy, I thought mine is bad :D How does yours perform?

mjkzz
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Re: Full electronic shutter

Post by mjkzz »

Beatsy wrote:
mjkzz wrote:Sony A7III in full electronic shutter mode and full frame mode + 2 studio strobes.
That came out really well. Even ignoring the front element damage, your Mitty looks like it's had a "fall or drop" more times than I've had hot dinners :) Amazing it works at all...
Hahaha, yeah, it looks really bad, but I was ensured that the optical axis was checked and OK. When we were discussing your idea of using Pentax 105 as tube lens, I was so impressed, I actually bought a "95% new" Mitutoyo 5x, but when I got it, just from the live view LCD, I can tell something was wrong with it. So I returned it. When I got this one, it was sharp on the LCD, very contrasty.
Beatsy wrote:I use my A7rii in full electronic shutter mode on the macro rig too. On the A7rii that means dynamic range drops to 12-bit instead of the usual 14-bits when the shutter is used (rear curtain only with EFCS on usually). I assume the A7iii is like the A9 and delivers full dynamic range even with electronic shutter. Is that the case? I've run tests to see if I could detect any difference between 14-bit DR and 12-bit DR images, and couldn't. Probably only an issue if you need to push an underexposed image a lot, but fairly unlikely since we can control the light.
OK, I did not think that much about DR, in fact, this is stacked from 197 JPG images, so DR probably does not matter too much here. I was going for large pixel size and full electronic shutter. With full electronic shutter, there is little wear and tear on the mechanical shutter, so I do not have to worry about the life cycle of it. A friend of mine is so edgy to get a Sony A7RIII, he asked me to do a quick test and this is it. Here are all the files used for this stack, feel free to check it out.
Beatsy wrote:But - how can you use strobes? AFAIK, none of the Sony alpha series will fire them in full electronic shutter mode. When I (rarely) use strobes, I have to switch to EFCS mode so the rear curtain will trigger them.
My controller has a flash/light output for which you can specify when to fire it and for how long (mostly for LED flash). This is independent of camera, so I can use strobes even though camera does not support it.

mjkzz
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Post by mjkzz »

mawyatt wrote:Peter,

That Mitty looks like someone used it for a hammer :cry:

Are you using your mid-curtain flash control from your new Stand Alone Controller to allow full electronic shutter with the Sony?

Best,
Hahaha, yeah, but the guy ensured me that he checked optical axis and all other stuff (he seems to be an engineer in this field).

Yes, I used the controller with flash/light control port. I am happy because now, I do not have to worry about shutter life, vibration caused by shutter, etc. Another benefit I just found out is that I can use the USB Type-C port to charge and supply power while using the camera, this means I do not have to use an AC powered fake battery (the one that damaged my Canon 550D) while doing stack and stitch. Have not tried it yet, but this could be great if it works.

Deanimator
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Post by Deanimator »

Those are amazing images, all the moreso since the objective looks like a cape buffalo tried to stomp it to death!

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

mjkzz wrote:
mawyatt wrote:Peter,

That Mitty looks like someone used it for a hammer :cry:

Are you using your mid-curtain flash control from your new Stand Alone Controller to allow full electronic shutter with the Sony?

Best,
Another benefit I just found out is that I can use the USB Type-C port to charge and supply power while using the camera, this means I do not have to use an AC powered fake battery (the one that damaged my Canon 550D) while doing stack and stitch. Have not tried it yet, but this could be great if it works.
Peter,

That's great feature on the Sony to use the USB-C for charging and external power, and of course the interface speed. They must have included the required charging & regulation electronics within the camera. Is the battery a single cell LiOn (3.7~4 volts)?

BTW how do you like your Ultra Rail with the HIWIN KK50 vs. the THK-KR20?

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Those are great results all around. Congratulations on everything. Do you sell your controllers? I'm about to get an A7Rii (can't afford the iii, and also I worry about the reported PDAF striping showing on its sensor in some extreme lighting conditions).

I think I read that the USB charging just extends the battery life but does not fully power the camera.

The dummy batteries of those AC adapters can often be run from the large external power batteries that are sold to recharge mobile phones while traveling. I would think these have near-zero chance of damaging a camera. TetherTools sells one, called the "Rock Solid" battery. Probably good for a day's shooting, recharge while sleeping.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Lou,

Yes, Peter sells them. They also can control your various focus rails, since it has programmable motor and lead screw capability and doesn't require a computer/pad/smartphone to operate :D

http://www.mjkzz.com/product-page/stand ... ith-remote

The USB-C specification according to WiKi is a maximum of 5 volts for power. Since a typical LiOn cell is 3.7~4 volts, thus a simple USB-C non-switchmode regulator/charger could charge a single cell, but not a dual cell (like Nikon uses). A dual cell LiOn USB-C regulator/charger would require a more complex switchmode topology. My Nikon MH-25a charger is rated at 8.4 volts at 1.2 amps, this is for the Nikon EN-EL15 7 volt LiOn batteries.

Anyway, this is why I asked Peter about it.

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Thanks Mike and Peter. Will definitely buy one of these (or maybe 2) in the next few days....

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Lou Jost wrote:Thanks Mike and Peter. Will definitely buy one of these (or maybe 2) in the next few days....
Lou,

Peter gets all the credit, I just started this flash/strobe concept for the D850 in Fully Electronic Shutter Curtain Mode because Nikon blocked the Hot Shoe Trigger :?

So I developed a work-around with a circuit based upon a 555 timer producing a variable delay (offered the circuit & components free to anyone suppling a SASE) but Peter took it a step further and wrote some code for a micro controller.

As you can see from Peter's solution, it's much nicer than mine below :lol:

Image

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

mjkzz
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Post by mjkzz »

Deanimator wrote:Those are amazing images, all the moreso since the objective looks like a cape buffalo tried to stomp it to death!
yeah, that mitty looks really bad, but I have seen a chipped 50x mitty working beautifully here.

mjkzz
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Post by mjkzz »

Lou Jost wrote:Those are great results all around. Congratulations on everything. Do you sell your controllers? I'm about to get an A7Rii (can't afford the iii, and also I worry about the reported PDAF striping showing on its sensor in some extreme lighting conditions).

I think I read that the USB charging just extends the battery life but does not fully power the camera.

The dummy batteries of those AC adapters can often be run from the large external power batteries that are sold to recharge mobile phones while traveling. I would think these have near-zero chance of damaging a camera. TetherTools sells one, called the "Rock Solid" battery. Probably good for a day's shooting, recharge while sleeping.
PDAF? phase detection auto focus? I have not seen it yet. There is something to watch out and can be damaging -- I heard in full electronic mode, banding can occur if flickering continuous light is used. I use flash so I have not observed it yet.

Oh, good to know about Rock Solid battery, but I am still in the shadow of that episode where my Canon 550D gets damaged.

Right now, almost all battery chargers can accept USB input, even cameras can charge battery when USB is plugged in, this Sony A7III is one example, another one being the Panasonic GX85, neither of these cameras come with battery charging device, you charge battery by plugging in USB cable. This is sure convenient as large power bank is ubiquitous now.

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