| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Just thought I'd slightly crop the one I previously posted.
-JW: |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks Rik, and thanks for helping. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rjlittlefield wrote: | Adding some technical information about the stereo...
--Rik |
Rik,
Is the stereo grey scale image a somewhat accurate representation of the different layered mask? If I'm deciphering the stereo correctly it looks like maybe 6 layers.
-JW: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rjlittlefield
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18868
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Smokedaddy wrote: | | Is the stereo grey scale image a somewhat accurate representation of the different layered mask? If I'm deciphering the stereo correctly it looks like maybe 6 layers. |
I'd say definitely yes, but if one of the chip guys has a different interpretation I would be very interested to hear. Remember that in these chips, conductors that cross and do not connect have to be in different levels.
By the way, sometimes it helps to "rock" the structure. Given a stereo pair, a simple way to do that is to pull the stereo pair into StereoPhoto Maker and rapidly click the "Swap Left/Right" button to repeatedly interchange the views. Depending on original layout, you may also need to use the left/right arrow keys to tweak up the alignment so that the structure appears to rock rather than shift as a unit left/right.
--Rik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Well to be honest, my original intent was to make a rocking image but it wasn't clear to me how to accomplish that. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to take the Zerene generated individual stereo images and import them into Photoshop to make a animated GIF in Photoshop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I did try that in SM too. Looks like the furthest/deepest image shifts at the same time as the closest/nearest layer does, so only two images are involved? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mawyatt
Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: Clearwater
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
James,
Sorry I missed the details!! Absolutely amazing images indeed 
Seeing down 6 metal levels is probably beyond 3 microns in depth, but not sure what process this is in, nor the passivation used. Might be polyamide or BCB, judging from the color, but below this is usually SiN, or SiO2+SiN.
Please tell us how you did this incredible work 
Best,
Mike
_________________
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rjlittlefield
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18868
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Smokedaddy wrote: | | Looks like the furthest/deepest image shifts at the same time as the closest/nearest layer does, so only two images are involved? |
Yes, only two images. All the depth planes in the subject will shift at the same time, but by different amounts.
One plane can be selected to not shift, by carefully adjusting the left/right alignment (using the arrow keys, in StereoPhoto Maker).
If you want to count the number of different planes, you might adjust the alignment so that the front of the subject does not shift when you switch images, then gradually work your way to the back, counting how many different alignments you need, to make each depth in the subject not shift.
| Quote: | | supposed to take the Zerene generated individual stereo images and import them into Photoshop to make a animated GIF in Photoshop. |
Yes, Photoshop or GIMP or ImageMagick or any of several others. Fairly soon now, I hope to have that functionality integrated into the ZS bundle, so users won't have to struggle with 3rd party software themselves.
--Rik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rjlittlefield
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18868
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mawyatt wrote: | | Seeing down 6 metal levels is probably beyond 3 microns in depth |
As I understand the shooting process, 3 microns depth sounds almost certainly correct. JW monitors the position of his stage using a Mitutoyo dial indicator, one micron per tick mark. Those "1/3 um steps" listed in the image description were eyeballed between tick marks, so individual steps might be off a little, but the total ~3 microns, probably not.
The width number is less certain because that is calculated, not measured.
--Rik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mawyatt wrote: | James,
Sorry I missed the details!! Absolutely amazing images indeed
Seeing down 6 metal levels is probably beyond 3 microns in depth, but not sure what process this is in, nor the passivation used. Might be polyamide or BCB, judging from the color, but below this is usually SiN, or SiO2+SiN.
Please tell us how you did this incredible work
Best,
Mike |
Thanks for the comments. Nothing ground breaking or amazing here Mike. Just the typical work flow of taking pics with a microscope at specific DOF increments, pre-processing them in PS and having Zerene do all the hard stuff.
I'm more interested in the technical stuff but haven't the education or high enough mathematics background to pursue my interest. I try but it's like trying to explain to someone in a text message how to rebuild a automatic transmission with out pictures.
-JW: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mawyatt
Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: Clearwater
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rjlittlefield wrote: | | mawyatt wrote: | | Seeing down 6 metal levels is probably beyond 3 microns in depth |
As I understand the shooting process, 3 microns depth sounds almost certainly correct. JW monitors the position of his stage using a Mitutoyo dial indicator, one micron per tick mark. Those "1/3 um steps" listed in the image description were eyeballed between tick marks, so individual steps might be off a little, but the total ~3 microns, probably not.
The width number is less certain because that is calculated, not measured.
--Rik |
Rik,
Here's what I found from a Stanford 2003 EE 311 class lecture.
https://web.stanford.edu/class/ee311/NOTES/Interconnect_Al.pdf
Of course you have the lens effect taking place at the chip surface with the index of refraction for the insulators hovering around 1.5.
Best,
Mike
_________________
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
razashaikh
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Posts: 124
Location: India
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A great thread with amazing stereo images.
Thanks for the information rjlittlefield.
Regards,
Raza |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rjlittlefield
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18868
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mawyatt wrote: | | Of course you have the lens effect taking place at the chip surface with the index of refraction for the insulators hovering around 1.5. |
I was wondering if the lower levels were somehow exposed, versus being seen through transparent stuff.
If I recall correctly, apparent depth goes as 1/RI, so 3 microns apparent at refractive index 1.5 would be actual depth 4.5 microns.
Your diagram shows about 10 microns.
That discrepancy strikes me as large enough to be interesting, but given the direct measurement method, not large enough to indicate an error. That judgement could change with more info, of course.
While I have you here, I have another question. In JW's images, the top layer of elements, oriented vertically in these images, seems to bump up-and-over the elements that are oriented horizontally. In the diagram that you've provided, I notice that the "metal 5" layer seems actually to be two sets of wires, with one crossing up and over the other. Is that perception correct?
--Rik |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smokedaddy
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1098
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Mike. I dug this up this morning.
-JW: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
