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CNC Microscope Setup

 
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TravisH



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 103
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: CNC Microscope Setup Reply with quote

Hi All,

I have been away and quiet for a bit, but getting back into the swing of things and now look towards doing a bit more microscopy and getting my system set up properly and reliably.

I did collect images with a Nikon D5300 DSLR, which was connected to the trinocular port and had an attached stepper motor to control the Z-Axis but I have recently ordered an AMSCOPE 18mp camera adapter to go direct to the computer and avoid the shutter issues and all of that stuff.

This system should work fairly well for me, and I have ordered two stages (one to modify to add stepper motors for X/Y control) in addition to the Z Axis control, all of which can be controlled by uMicroscope and a CNC / RAMPS controller plugin.

That is my desk microscope, but my other project is one I have been stewing on for some time, which is basically to create a CNC style microscope, so there are linear rails for the X, Y and Z axis which either a; move the camera around the fixed sample point, or b; move the sample around the fixed camera point.

I am thinking I would prefer to go a microscope camera style approach rather than use a dedicated DSLR (just because of the sheer number of images, I will kill the shutter in a few slides or subjects), but I have two questions around this setup and I am hoping you might be able to help.

The first question is with respect to the CNC side of things, apologies if this is simple but is it better to keep the imaging setup fixed and move the sample, or keep the sample(s) fixed and move the imaging setup across the samples?

The second question is a bit more complex, I am trying to work out how to most effectively create a 'tube' like microscope which has the capability of measuring at around 4x, 10x and 20x mainly. I noticed there are some decides on ebay which appear to be tube lenses (e.g. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-7X-4-5X-Zoom-Industry-Microscope-Camera-C-Mount-Objective-Lens/263488720436?_trkparms=pageci%3A6b4b3a5e-1300-11e8-a3b6-74dbd180e37f%7Cparentrq%3A9e102c5e1610a861ccca3d51fff69320%7Ciid%3A1&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236) are these any good, or is there a better way to achieve this with an objective and a camera like the amscope one I am going to use? (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-7X-4-5X-Zoom-Industry-Microscope-Camera-C-Mount-Objective-Lens/263488720436?_trkparms=pageci%3A6b4b3a5e-1300-11e8-a3b6-74dbd180e37f%7Cparentrq%3A9e102c5e1610a861ccca3d51fff69320%7Ciid%3A1&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236)

I have the rails, and will start building soon Smile, but keen to work out how to get the optical system set up. Have many people used telecentric setups and if so what sort of lenses / objectives / systems did you use?

Many Thanks!
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Pau
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4543
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am thinking I would prefer to go a microscope camera style approach rather than use a dedicated DSLR (just because of the sheer number of images, I will kill the shutter in a few slides or subjects)

Very likely a DSLR (or mirrorless) camera will provide better image quality than the Amscope. Good dedicated microscope cameras are really expensive.

Quote:
The first question is with respect to the CNC side of things, apologies if this is simple but is it better to keep the imaging setup fixed and move the sample, or keep the sample(s) fixed and move the imaging setup across the samples?

This entirely depends of the kind of subject and setup (opticaly it will be de same, of course). If the subject is small I think that moving it will be simpler

Quote:
The second question is a bit more complex, I am trying to work out how to most effectively create a 'tube' like microscope which has the capability of measuring at around 4x, 10x and 20x mainly. I noticed there are some decides on ebay which appear to be tube lenses (e.g. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-7X-4-5X-Zoom-Industry-Microscope-Camera-C-Mount-Objective-Lens/263488720436?_trkparms=pageci%3A6b4b3a5e-1300-11e8-a3b6-74dbd180e37f%7Cparentrq%3A9e102c5e1610a861ccca3d51fff69320%7Ciid%3A1&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236) are these any good, or is there a better way to achieve this with an objective and a camera like the amscope one I am going to use?


If your goal is good image quality and not just measuring I think that this kind of lenses will not be convenient (they even don't disclose the NA, I guess it will be small). A setup based in proven macro lenses and microscope objectives will deliver much better IQ
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TravisH



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 103
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pau,

I am thinking using something like a DIY tube microscope rather than an ebay special would be better. My biggest issue with the images is that I am talking about capturing a significant number of images. I will be less likely to use microscope slides on this setup and more likely to use things like butterflies. In reality, i would not really exceed 10x for what I am doing, but given there will be some level of Z stacking, as well as significant X and Y captures it would not be impractical for this system to capture upwards of 10,000 images per item. I have the best part of a few hundred things I plan to digitize so my worry is that it would significantly destroy the camera very quickly.

Do the mirrorless cameras have the same issues as DSLR's in terms of shutter life, if not then I could certainly look at a mirrorless camera, the main thing is though that it has an SDK so i can integrate it with my programmed system which will handle controlling the camera. The amscope one I was looking at was an 18mp camera, and certainly not one of the cheaper models that exist all over eBay (but that does not always mean it is great).

Whatever solution i pick, it will be devoted to this setup so I don't mind if it is not feature rich, or not very flexible Smile.
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4543
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some Olympus mirrorless cameras can be driven with full electronic shutter, also some Sony models could do it. Even there exist some software hacks that allow to do it with some DSLRs, I have no experience but lately it has been a popular subject at the forum
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elf



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1357

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a few macro panoramas with more than 5000 images and have only worn out one camera Cool I don't even worry about it with my current mirrorless camera.

The FAQ has several threads on macro rigs, most of which could be automated with steppers.

At lower magnifications (under 10X), you'll need to deal with parallax issues. I did it by adding a rotating element in order to rotate around the entrance pupil. Using a telecentric lens is another option.
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TravisH



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 103
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What camera do you use elf?, id be interested to find out more about your setup.
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elf



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1357

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately Photobucket ruined the threads with pictures of my setup, but if you can handle the excessive advertisements, you can see the pictures here.

p.s. Camera is E5-M2
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