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How to connect Nikon measurement scope base to camera
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 1068
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:
Thank you very much, Saul and Enrico!

Saul:
I am open to plywood or whatever that works.

Enrico,
The round one you linked to (263220240999) looks very good and I would likely go with that one. The long one (282822071250) is way too long (I will soon upload a drawing with my dimensions).

No results were found on eBay, when I searched 232409130596 or 263439738870 .

There are two types of round clamp, with the same body. One has an ordinary knob for tightening the clamp, the other has a knob with a long shaft (some 2-3 cm). The latter can be useful if the clamp is attached to a metal plate wider than the clamp, so that the knob will clear the edge of the metal plate and be easier to turn.

There is also a round clamp integral with a lockable rotating base, which you probably don't need.

PS - There used to be a trick for seeing items based on their eBay number, even when the seller has not included your country among the shipping destinations. I forgot it, but someone else may be able to explain it.
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lothman



Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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Location: Stuttgart/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just another proposal. If an adapter plate is milled, one could mill also an arca profile on the topside and use an arca double clamp. This gives the possibility to do all necessary holes on the milling machine at the same action, so a high grade of accurateness can easily be achieved and the end user would not have to modify any further parts.
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plywood/ MDF is suitable because Fan is, I assume unable to make the thing out of aluminium. Metal would be tricky with just hand tools, wood much less so.

Putting glue in the holes does not mean you can't remove the (waxed) screws, it simply consolidates the wood.

The holes I indicated do need to be tapped because that's the way Nikon made the front part. Lothman's sketch has those screws coming from the wrong side.
Nuts could be added if plain drilled holes were used, but they could get in the way.

I have the same parts Fan has I believe, as part of a Nikon Measurescope.
The holes appear to be the same spacings, an inch apart in width and two inches (approx) in length. I have a couple of random Arca clamps which are large ebough to cover the holes so could be drilled and tapped, without any further plate being needed underneath.

Only a small clearance is needed underneath - a couple of washers would serve for that.

An arca clamp with a long-shaft knob, wouldn't interfere with the focus block.

There are Cheeseplates on ebay such as item 322848230472 which may help if you decide you need an intermediate plate. There are many but they're hard to search for without getting thousands of hits. You'd probably still need to drill some holes.
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lothman



Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
The holes I indicated do need to be tapped because that's the way Nikon made the front part. Lothman's sketch has those screws coming from the wrong side.


No they are not from the wrong side. Holes for the Hexscrews in order to bolt the plate to the focus block and threads for the screws which go through the clamp. All can be machined and assembled from the top side.



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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, gents. You are very kind and helpful.

I will give my machinist friend all parts and let him read through your comments to assemble a plan. He is much smarter than I am and highly skilled.

Chris S
You mentioned some important points that I overlooked. I apologize for orientation of my drawing of Arca screw holes on adapter plate - I failed to think carefully about it.

Lothman,

I like your simple adapter plate idea better than my own (now that I understand it is easy for machinists to tap screw holes). Your double-sided Arca clamp idea sounds great too.

I do not understand how you can hold adapter plate via hexscrews from top side though. I am sure you have a good point, seeing that you have a Nikon focus block with Arca clamp yourself. I am just not smart enough in this art; maybe my machinist friend would know better. Would it be a bother, if I ask for a little more elaboration?

ChrisR,

Your focus block looks exactly the same as mine, if I remember correctly. What metric size are those 4 screws that hold the L shape scope mount? M5 or M6, maybe? An approximate size will help me find them quickly; my local HomeDepot store does not make it easy to find those screws; I may have a messy collection too, if I can find them in my house Rolling Eyes


Last edited by zzffnn on Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm not right - zzffnn is using focus block, based on the Labophot 1, which has holes in it and threads are in the scope head. Lohtman's focus block is based on the Labophot 2, which has threads, not holes.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saul wrote:
Maybe I'm not right - zzffnn is using focus block, based on the Labophot 1, which has holes in it and threads are in the scope head. Lohtman's focus block is based on the Labophot 2, which has threads, not holes.


Thank you, Saul.

You are correct, in that my focus block has holes without threads (threads are in my L shaped scope head mount). Lothman's focus block has threads, which seems to be an important difference. I don't know which focus block is based on which scope model though.
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Last edited by zzffnn on Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some pics: See threads in the L shaped part, and the gap which is necessary for clearance. Washers would do. This size Arca clamp covers all the holes.

The 4 screws are M4.

A Lever-style Arca clamp would be a safet bet, to clear the focus knob.





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Chris S.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
Plywood/ MDF is suitable because Fan is, I assume unable to make the thing out of aluminium. Metal would be tricky with just hand tools, wood much less so.

I disagree that aluminum is tricky with just hand tools. For simple adapters such as the ones under discussion in this thread, making them out of aluminum is at worst only slightly harder than making them out of plywood or MDF; and at best is somewhat easier. I think that Fan and most others on our forum would do fine working with aluminum to make simple parts such as we are proposing for this adapter. But there seems to be a strange reticence--dare I say a phobia?--that keeps many of us from working with aluminum and other soft metals.

Since I've successfully worked with Aluminum, brass, and even steel--and found such work rather easy and even fun--I think others should be encouraged to try similar things. It isn't that hard! Very Happy (Granted, I've watched over the shoulder of a master fabricator, and learned from watching him. But I'm not an expert and have not used fancy equipment; still, I've made aluminum adapters quite easily. Everyone has access to YouTube, where there are many useful tutorials. And forum members with limited experience have access to advice from forum members with more experience.

So I think it's time to leave behind any phobias against working with easy metals such as aluminum.

Cheers,

--Chris S.
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it depends what you have. Smile. I'm familiar with the materials and machinery, but having no bench or vice/vise I'd not do it in metal.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, gents. My machinist friend will likely be working with aluminium or steel. I promise to learn it in the future Evil or Very Mad
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have another dummy question on screws on Arca clamp, especially the one mentioned by Enrico:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/DM-60-60mm-3-8-Screw-Quick-Release-Clamp-Compatible-With-Arca-Swiss-Standard/263220240999?hash=item3d49262267:g:jFEAAOSwwrtZwyZC

The listing is not very clear about it and just says 3/8". No mentioning if screws are included and exactly what screw specs (fine or coarse, Philip flat head or socket head?) They look like flat head Philip screws in the photos.

Those are huge screws. My local hardware store (HomeDepot) only has 3/8" coarse socket head screws. I just want to save my machinist friend's time and get everything ready for him.
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ChrisR
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The central hole is both countersunk AND tapped, which is a conflicting combination.
It's done to give choices in mounting. If you were using that hole from the top, you'd use a countersunk screw smaller than 3/8" to clear the thread, so it would be held by the countersunk part.
If you were fixing from the underside, you could use a standard large tripod fixing, which is 3/8-16 UNC thread.

Fixing to a plate, you may choose to use the other two holes. They aren't saying what size those are. They could also be used with countersunk screws from the top, or (probably) tapped to something suitable if from beneath.

Honestly I'd expect anyone given the task of coming up with a fixing plate, to have a selection of screws available. Even I have a couple of dozen different sizes, including long ones which are easily cut to length. If you have to use smallish sizes such as M4, you can opt for High Tensile types, the cost difference is negligible. Anyone doing this sort of thing will know where to get "just the right" screw.

One thing you'll need to consider is that the clamp must be aligned carefully so it's parallel with, or at right angle the, direction of movement, depending how you arrange things. Otherwise you need to angle the camera where it's fixed to the plate, which may not be possible.
For that reason I'd probably use a longer plate, making provision of angular adjustment easier.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, ChrisR.

Please kindly suggest a longer plate, or an eBay search term or ID. Sorry, I am dummy in this art and don't understand why a longer plate would provide easier angular adjustment, but I am sure you are right.

I was thinking about this one, but it is still short, I guess:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/DM-60N-3-8-Screw-Quick-Release-Clamp-Aluminum-Compatible-Arca-Swiss/142679316367?hash=item213859978f:g:GqIAAOSwRkRZx1qT
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:
I have another dummy question on screws on Arca clamp, especially the one mentioned by Enrico:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/DM-60-60mm-3-8-Screw-Quick-Release-Clamp-Compatible-With-Arca-Swiss-Standard/263220240999?hash=item3d49262267:g:jFEAAOSwwrtZwyZC

The listing is not very clear about it and just says 3/8". No mentioning if screws are included and exactly what screw specs (fine or coarse, Philip flat head or socket head?) They look like flat head Philip screws in the photos.

Those are huge screws. My local hardware store (HomeDepot) only has 3/8" coarse socket head screws. I just want to save my machinist friend's time and get everything ready for him.


See here for the exact screw specifications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripod_(photography)#Screw_thread . That said, you can indeed use Whitworth screws (which are far more common but have a slightly different thread profile) in a UNC socket, especially if they are permanently or semi-permanently connected. There is more of a concern if you frequently screw a Whitworth screw in a UNC socked many times, especially if the socket is in aluminium and can wear out. You can lessen this concern if you use brass Whitworth screws instead of steel one, because brass is often smoother and slowly adapts itself.

If a 3/8" screw is too thick, you can use a 3/8" to 1/4" adapter, which lets you use 1/4 screws and also removes the concern of wearing out the 3/8 socket because these adapters have UNC threads. This is one of the reasons for a threaded and countersunk hole, it allows the head of a 3/8 to 1/4 adapter to sit flush in the countersunk part.

Not all 3/8 to 1/4 adapters can sit properly in some of these clamps. You might need a couple of tries to find one that does.

There are also "headless" 3/8 to 1/4 adapters, that I don't like much. They are a bit fragile, for one thing.
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