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ES + DEF

 
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 1069
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: ES + DEF Reply with quote

Epsom salt dissolved in DEF. (diesel exhaust fluid)
X pol. and Zerene stack.
2x obj. first one.
4x obj. next three.



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carlos.uruguay



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 4905
Location: Uruguay - Montevideo - America del Sur

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice
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Mike



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Sumguy,

Interesting shots! Why the solution in DEF? Imagine that is nothing more than condensate from the combustion cycle, with a healthy charge of C soot from an incomplete burn.

It does provide an interesting background for the ES crystals though!

All the best,
Mike
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18792
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Why the solution in DEF? Imagine that is nothing more than condensate from the combustion cycle, with a healthy charge of C soot from an incomplete burn.

I don't know about Sumguy's DEF, but the stuff I read about consists of "32.5 percent urea and 67.5 percent deionized water". I expect that the crystals shown here are a mix of Epsom salt and urea.

--Rik
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Mike



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... guess we learn something everyday! I assumed (!) it was something coming out of the diesel exhaust - not exactly a big leap - and was/am completely unaware of the DEF you buy and add to reduce NOx emissions.

Guess my question would then be are you suggesting the urea is represented by the dark, brown elements in the photos? Does not seem correct to me, as I would expect urea crystals to look much different under pol illumination.

We learn something new each day!

All the best,
Mike
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18792
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Guess my question would then be are you suggesting the urea is represented by the dark, brown elements in the photos? Does not seem correct to me, as I would expect urea crystals to look much different under pol illumination.

I'm not a crystal guy, so anything I suggest is pretty much sheer speculation. But we can see in Sumguy's earlier post that his DEF by itself makes clear clean crystals. I would expect Epson salt by itself in water to also make clear clean crystals, so I can only guess that somehow Epsom salt and urea interfere with each other's crystalization in some way that produces the blobby things we see here.

--Rik
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Mike



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Rik,

You know what they say about assuming - guess I got caught with this one by taking the DEF a bit too literally, although my understanding of English perhaps contributed to my confusion - it would seem the material that Sumguy is using and you correctly identified is a fuel additive to modify the diesel exhaust, not a part of the exhaust!

At any rate, looks like an interesting material from the earlier post you linked and might be worth looking into other forms of urea - used in many areas.

Still a bit curious about those brown fuzzy things!

All the best,
Mike
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18792
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEF was new to me too. As I understand the process, it's not really a fuel additive but rather gets injected into the exhaust stream between the engine and the catalytic converter. The chemistry is described in the Diesel exhaust fluid Wikipedia article.

Quote:
We learn something new each day!

Better, several new things.

A colleague once told me, "Gee, Rik, if you learn just one new thing every day, at the end of a year you'll still know hardly anything."

I don't think he intended it to be insulting, but I was never completely sure about that. Confused

--Rik
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Mike



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Northeast Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Rik,

Yep, 'there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio'...

The only downside I can see with learning one thing a day, at my age I forget more than that every day so the net at the end of the year... Rolling Eyes

All the best,
Mike
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 1069
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys
The DEF that I am using is urea and ionized water.
The DEF I have seen so far did not have the ugly brown crystal formations nor has the Epsom salt.
I have no idea what they are but after a period of time they seem to take over the nice looking colorful crystal formations like a blight.
I have no idea what I am doing.
Just Sumguy that likes to look a cool stuff in the microscope Very Happy
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Jacek



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4932
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Very Happy
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