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Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 vs Oshiro 60mm f/2.8 2x Lens Test
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 513
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 vs Oshiro 60mm f/2.8 2x Lens Test Reply with quote

The Oshiro 60mm 2:1 and others like it have around for a long time, and there have been more than a few posts about these lenses online. But over the years since the 60mm 2x lenses have been around I have never seen a comparison test, so I decided to take a look myself. Going with the Oshiro 60mm 2x version meant there wasn't too much of a risk with a retail price at only $169 (+ free shipping on Amazon) and return

Test Setup Notes

Camera:Sony A6300, model
Sensor size: 23.5 × 15.6 mm. APS-C. 28.21 mm diagonal. 3.92 micron sensor pitch
Flash:Godox TT350s wireless flash x 2 with one Godox X1s 2.4G wireless flash transmitter
Adapter: Sigma MC-11, E-mount to EOS adapter.
Image processing: All images were shot in Sony ARW file format and processed in Photoshop CC 2018 with all noise reduction and lens correction turned off, RAW camera calibration was set to standard, all settings were zeroed out (true zero) and the same identical settings were used on all of the images.

I ran a stack with each lens and each aperture and the sharpest images were chosen. At 2x both lenses where best at f/4.

To see the other apertures and for more images see this page on my site:
https://www.closeuphotography.com/oshiro-60mm-2x-macro-lens/

Oshiro 60mm f/2.8 2:1 LD UNC Ultra-Macro Lens at 2x



Link for full size image:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5864340dc534a5769d5b1daf/t/5a5a661108522942af004155/1515873827655/Oshiro-60mm-f2.8-2-1-Macro-LD-UNC-Lens-at-2X-Robert-OToole-Photography.jpg?format=1500w

Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo Lens at 2x



Link for full size image:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5864340dc534a5769d5b1daf/t/5a5a664771c10b9c8c2a08d2/1515873878808/Canon-MP-E-65mm-f2.8-Macro-Lens-at-2x-Robert-OToole-Photography.jpg?format=1500w

Oshiro 60mm f/2.8 vs Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 100% center crops



Link for full size image:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5864340dc534a5769d5b1daf/t/5a5a7a8824a6949edb8ca843/1515879059314/Oshiro-60mm-Canon-MP-E-65mm-f4-center-100-percent-crop.jpg?format=1500w

Oshiro 60mm f/2.8 vs Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 100% corner crops



Link for full size image:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5864340dc534a5769d5b1daf/t/5a5a79ad652deae5fce6b11e/1515878837200/Oshiro-60mm-Canon-MP-E-65mm-f4-corner-100-percent-crop.jpg?format=1500w

Conclusion

Downsized to 1500 pixels the results from both lenses look great. Looking at the actual pixel crops, the differences are really easy to see. The MP-E beats the Oshiro 60mm as you would expect, with better CA control and sharpness, but even at 100%, the images were a lot closer than I expected.

I am interested to hear what you think. Personally, I think the Oshiro is worth the $169 after see these images. If you are just starting out in macro photography you could go with the Oshiro and have money left over for a Sony A6300 body, Godox wireless controller, and 2 Godox flash, for the same price as the MP-E 65!

BTW, I ordered the Oshiro in E-mount and the lens showed up in EOS mount with a free E-mount to EOS adapter, so that's sort of a bonus.

These are a few of the best posts online for more information on the 60mm 2x type lenses:

http://savazzi.net/photography/60mm2x_lenses.html

https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34773

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=164263&sid=94c71b1d49a0ffec07682f03fe59f3bd


Comments and questions welcome.

Robert
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 188
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again thanks for this good comparison Robert!

I clearly see the difference about CA and sharpness as you already told about.

CA can be reduced with postprocessing and I think the sharpness is very good for an amateur macro photographer.

I think Oshiro 60mm is a good lens for the buck!

Thanks for your efforts, your contribution to community is praiseworthy.
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Omer
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 513
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments Omer.

One thing I forgot to check is LoCAs, or longitudinal Chromatic Aberration. The MP-E 65 has some of the worst LoCAs but lateral CA correction is good.

LoCAs are not much of a problem in a stack since they are removed in the stacking process but LoCAs are a big problem in single shot images.

All the best,

Robert
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1200
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

Nice work, that Oshiro looks like a very good value!! You seem to have a knack for finding these, like the $17 AmScope 4X!!

BTW that's a nice Ti wafer you have.

Best,

Mike
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ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7504
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see someone buying the Oshiro if they don't have a macro lens.
If they DO though it probably goes to 1:1, with an auto diaphragm, so the Oshiro doesn't offer much more. A set of tubes or a Raynox would probably be a better choice.

Those running round plants looking for bugs, would tend to operate at smaller apertures for DOF. Compared with the MP-E with its auto diaphragm that's difficult, but the optical performance may be even closer.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone compared the Laowa to the Oshiro 60mm 2:1 lenses? I have a Laowa but not an Oshiro. Are they the same lens but re-badged?
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 513
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Has anyone compared the Laowa to the Oshiro 60mm 2:1 lenses? I have a Laowa but not an Oshiro. Are they the same lens but re-badged?


Enrico posted a lots of good info on this, the link is in the first post. He has both and believes they are different optically.

You can always send me the laowa if you are curious. I am traveling on business now and the rig I used for the test is still set up so I can add the Laowa.

This is the link to Enrico's site:


http://savazzi.net/photography/60mm2x_lenses.html[url][/url]
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:
Has anyone compared the Laowa to the Oshiro 60mm 2:1 lenses? I have a Laowa but not an Oshiro. Are they the same lens but re-badged?


Enrico posted a lots of good info on this, the link is in the first post. He has both and believes they are different optically.

You can always send me the laowa if you are curious. I am traveling on business now and the rig I used for the test is still set up so I can add the Laowa.

This is the link to Enrico's site:


http://savazzi.net/photography/60mm2x_lenses.html[url][/url]


Good info from Enrico.

It indeed would be nice to have a direct comparison. PM me your address and I will send the lens to you.

Mine is Nikon mount, so should adapt well to EOS.
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Pitufo



Joined: 21 Jun 2015
Posts: 160
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this could be a factor but I use an MP-E 65mm mounted on a Canon 70D with Canon EOS Software (the updated software recognises the lens and has automatic CA correction applied I believe).

I don't think I have ever noticed any CA with the MP-E 65 (and I see plenty of CA with microscopes of various types).

I wonder whether using the 65 on a Sony body might not be optimum.

Apologies if this is already well known and discussed. I think someone else was getting less than perfect results with the 65 and they were unaware of this feature. Once in use, their results improved.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Pitufo"]I don't know if this could be a factor but I use an MP-E 65mm mounted on a Canon 70D with Canon EOS Software (the updated software recognises the lens and has automatic CA correction applied I believe).
Pitufo wrote:
itufo"]
I don't think I have ever noticed any CA with the MP-E 65 (and I see plenty of CA with microscopes of various types).


Hi Pitufo,

Canon MP-E 65 LoCAs or longitudinal chromatic aberration, green (behind) & purple (in front) out of focus halos?

Chances are you don't see them since you are stopping down to the point they are not an issue. They are mostly gone by f/5.6.

Even the Canon 100mm IS L lens has LoCAs at f/2.8 and f/4, the older non-UD lens had less LoCAs BTW.

The Canon software will remove lateral CAs, purple fringing near the corners, but not LoCAs.

LoCAs will be normally removed in the stacking process.

Also some people are just more sensitive to it than others.

Zeiss makro lenses are notorious for LoCAs also BTW.


Pitufo wrote:
I wonder whether using the 65 on a Sony body might not be optimum.


My Sony A6300 seems to be equally unforgiving with all manufacturers lenses.
Lenses that I had memories of being good at one point, now that I am testing, turn out to be lemons. I have literally tossed lenses in the garbage bin after testing them. Not just for CAs but all types of aberrations.

Pitufo wrote:
Apologies if this is already well known and discussed. I think someone else was getting less than perfect results with the 65 and they were unaware of this feature. Once in use, their results improved.


It has been talked about but there has not been a really in-depth discussion on this topic that I am aware of.

I am planning on posting something on this now that I have a Sony, but, I just need to get a hold of a Sony macro lens. It turns out Sony (and Leica) and the worst offenders of auto removal. With Adobe Lightroom and with a Sony lens, the software removes CAs and crops and resamples to remove distortion before you see the image, and its worse, you can't turn it off. I get around this now by not owning a Sony lens.

Auto-correction is a interesting and really important topic for all of us I think.

Thanks for the comments.

Robert
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a note on macro lenses on full-frame Sony Alpha, I finally gave in and got an A7R Mii (not Miii, too expensive i.m.h.o. for what it offers above the Mii). I will have plenty of testing of old lenses to do, but I can already say that the old AF Micro Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8 (not the more recent G one with internal focus) performs well enough at 42 Mpixel (in manual-everything mode) that I don't really see a need to buy a Sony 90 mm macro.

The Printing Nikkor 105 mm f/2.8 at 1x is of course spectacular with this body.

The CoastalOpt 60 mm f/4 is also very good within its native magnification range, as long as you know how to prevent the central flare spot. This is the only real problem with this lens (with any camera), but the fix is easy.

Even the Sigma macro 180 mm f/3.5 (not the more recent f/2.8) works remarkably well. I used it for years with a UV filter at the front, but discovered that removing it does improve things with this camera.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
Just as a note on macro lenses on full-frame Sony Alpha, I finally gave in and got an A7R Mii (not Miii, too expensive i.m.h.o. for what it offers above the Mii).....


Wow, excellent timing. I was looking last night at maybe buying a Sony 7Rii or 7Riii and using Capture One Pro. I looked on their website and saw that Pro allows on-screen Live View, perhaps like CMN or EOS Utility. Are you using it with C1Pro? Your results sound very hopeful and are making me lean heavily that way. I also thought the 7Riii did not offer much benefit over the 7rii so would likely go the same way. How are you triggering shutter for stacks?
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concon



Joined: 01 Jun 2017
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great side by side comparisons.

I bought the Oshiro starting out, moving up from a Sony 30mm macro lens. I loved using it and relied upon it for a year- with the right post process it stands well against any pro lens.

It goes from .5x to 2x as far as I can remember and I used it all ranges with no problem. I had to buy an adapter for it as I use a Sony a7rii. I recently purchased the Sony 90mm, but keep the Oshiro on my table as it's still a very solid lens IMO.

I highly recommend it as it's so ##### affordable.
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JohnyM



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
enricosavazzi wrote:
Just as a note on macro lenses on full-frame Sony Alpha, I finally gave in and got an A7R Mii (not Miii, too expensive i.m.h.o. for what it offers above the Mii).....


Wow, excellent timing. I was looking last night at maybe buying a Sony 7Rii or 7Riii and using Capture One Pro. I looked on their website and saw that Pro allows on-screen Live View, perhaps like CMN or EOS Utility. Are you using it with C1Pro? Your results sound very hopeful and are making me lean heavily that way. I also thought the 7Riii did not offer much benefit over the 7rii so would likely go the same way. How are you triggering shutter for stacks?

Hello, not a question for me, but check this out:
https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/app/imagingedge/en/devices/#emount

You can see why RIII have some value over RII (i dont plan to upgrade tho) and get soft better than C1 for tethering.

Im using this only if i want to shoot single frame (shutter by mouseclick or using IR remote). If im shooting stack, i use wemacro and getting live-view via HDMI on 4k TV.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 513
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
Just as a note on macro lenses on full-frame Sony Alpha, I finally gave in and got an A7R Mii (not Miii, too expensive i.m.h.o. for what it offers above the Mii). I will have plenty of testing of old lenses to do,


Congratulations Enrico!

You certainly have some superb optics go with a great body.

Robert
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