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Kipon adapter => internal reflections?
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Kipon adapter => internal reflections? Reply with quote

Since Sony has a silent mode, I purchased a Sony a6300 for the sole purpose of focus stacking. The shop recommended to get a Kipon adapter from Sony NEX to Canon EF. The adapter arrived today, I picked it up and haven't used it yet.

I have the idea of glueing in a UV filter adapter ring so I can attach a (high quality B+W) UV filter to that ring to seal the camera sensor from dust (see picture). Dust is often an issue with my stacks and preventing it is much better than having to retouch it.

My first impression is that the surface of the adapter is quite shiny and would possibly give internal refectlions and loss of contrast.

I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions here Cool

Niels

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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1076
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks shiny to me. Protostar or doodlebug or equivalent will fix that right up.
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ChrisR
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7257
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be easy to paint black, The one mentioned last ( "Black2"? ) is pretty good, and easier to get than Protostar or Doodlebug.

Last time I looked, Hoya beat B&W.

I wonder if it would be better to angle the filter, to prevent reflections to/fromm sensor or lens. If angled just slightly, I expect you'd see a line of some sort, perpendiculat to the tilt axis, if refelections are occurring.

I expect you're aware that there are filters which fit camera mouths, available for astro photography, including clear ones. I assume they're particularly thin.
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Looks shiny to me. Protostar or doodlebug or equivalent will fix that right up.


what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
It might be easy to paint black, The one mentioned last ( "Black2"? ) is pretty good, and easier to get than Protostar or Doodlebug.

Last time I looked, Hoya beat B&W.

I wonder if it would be better to angle the filter, to prevent reflections to/fromm sensor or lens. If angled just slightly, I expect you'd see a line of some sort, perpendiculat to the tilt axis, if refelections are occurring.

I expect you're aware that there are filters which fit camera mouths, available for astro photography, including clear ones. I assume they're particularly thin.


I have one that fits in the Canon APS-C mount, but it doesn't seal completely. If clicks in place but is by no means air tight and therefore useless for blocking dust particles.

I once bought a can of this black paint together with a small package of cristobalite (SiO2) powder. The people from the store said it would remove even more reflections from that black paint, but no clue how black it is compared to black 2.0. Since the adapter is about 100 usd I don't want to mess it up with the wrong paint so I prefer to do it proper the first time.

I made a phone call to a local art shop and they don't have black 2.0, but they do have molotow tar black ral 210 in a spray can.
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18248
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nielsgeode wrote:
what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink

See discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917 .

--Rik
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
nielsgeode wrote:
what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink

See discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917 .

--Rik


I have some black flocking (not sure which one), but never used it (never needed to use it). Also I'm afraid it gives of fibers and/or dust particles.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1076
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nielsgeode wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
nielsgeode wrote:
what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink

See discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917 .

--Rik


I have some black flocking (not sure which one), but never used it (never needed to use it). Also I'm afraid it gives of fibers and/or dust particles.


I've had good luck with black construction paper.
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see I can order a bottle of BLACK 2.0 from culturehustle.com for about 30 USD including shipping.

Are there people on the forum that have experience with BLACK 2.0? How durable is it and how big is the risk of paint particles getting on lens surfaces or inside lenses or bellows etc.?
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 405
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nielsgeode wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
nielsgeode wrote:
what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink

See discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917 .

--Rik


I have some black flocking (not sure which one), but never used it (never needed to use it). Also I'm afraid it gives of fibers and/or dust particles.


Hi

Last month I picked up a Sony A6300 and all of my adapters needed flocking to cut central flare. Once fixed they now work fine.

I have a 250 foot or 76 meter roll of Prostar flocking material, thats a little more than I need. Message me your address and I can send you some in an envelope first class mail.

Robert
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
nielsgeode wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
nielsgeode wrote:
what are protostar and doodlebug other than a very young star and a movie from 1997? Wink

See discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17917 .

--Rik


I have some black flocking (not sure which one), but never used it (never needed to use it). Also I'm afraid it gives of fibers and/or dust particles.


Hi

Last month I picked up a Sony A6300 and all of my adapters needed flocking to cut central flare. Once fixed they now work fine.

I have a 250 foot or 76 meter roll of Prostar flocking material, thats a little more than I need. Message me your address and I can send you some in an envelope first class mail.

Robert


PM sent Very Happy
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 858
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general, lens adapters from Metabones are among the best currently available (including mechanical tolerances, chromed brass or steel rear bayonets and internal blackening). If you are contemplating purchasing a new adapter, this is what I recommend. However, Metabones adapters cost roughly 2 to 8 times more than competitors.

Kipon adapters are cheaper and clearly more cheaply made, but still somewhat better than many no-name ones. Unless you are not satisfied with mechanical tolerances of your Kipon adapter, you could try lining the interior with protostar or painting it with flat black as suggested by others, before looking at Metabones adapters.
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
In general, lens adapters from Metabones are among the best currently available (including mechanical tolerances, chromed brass or steel rear bayonets and internal blackening). If you are contemplating purchasing a new adapter, this is what I recommend. However, Metabones adapters cost roughly 2 to 8 times more than competitors.

Kipon adapters are cheaper and clearly more cheaply made, but still somewhat better than many no-name ones. Unless you are not satisfied with mechanical tolerances of your Kipon adapter, you could try lining the interior with protostar or painting it with flat black as suggested by others, before looking at Metabones adapters.


Metabones would be overkill in terms of functionality, electronics and autofocus because I literally only use it for focus stacking with microscope objectives. Hence I have a Kipon adapter that is mehanical-fit only with no electronics whatsoever. Another very good company is Novoflex of course, but haven't looked into them.

Concerning the mechanical fit of the Kipon: I have no idea because I haven't tested it (just picked it up today from the shop)

Edit: just mounted a Canon 200mm f/2.8L II on the A6300 with the kipon adapter and it doesn't wobble, there's a tight fit with only the camera and lens being able to rotate a little bit around the mount of the adapter. Personally, I don't really mind.
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Yawns



Joined: 20 Dec 2015
Posts: 89
Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i use this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FK100-BLACK-FLOCKING-KIT-DASHBOARD-FLOCK-ADHESIVE-APPLICATOR-FULL-KIT/261944664810?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/h8wAAOSwx6pYoca0/s-l1600.jpg

and this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARAX-Optical-Photo-Sticky-Flocking-Sheet-Light-Trap-Black-Flock-Velour-Velvet/271711524059?hash=item3f4344d4db:g:DtoAAOSwkNZUkZ~S

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DtoAAOSwkNZUkZ~S/s-l500.jpg

and I don't have complains...
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nielsgeode



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 244
Location: Groningen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The adapter ring to which a dust seal (i.e. UV filter) will be screwed has been glued to the KIPON adapter with epoxy. On the side of the Sony mount is a thin line of gray-colored epoxy.

Would it impact contrast in the images and how would you make it black? I'm not to keen on using protostar or similar because I'm afraid it gives off fibers and then there's nothing between the protostar and the sensor.

I was thinking to take a very small brush and paint it black with this stuff that I have page is in German. It translates as matt blackboard paint. Would it attach to the anodized aluminum and to the epoxy and wouldn't it give off any particles or vapor in the long term? Of course you let it dry completely first.

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