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camera with a full electronic shutter

 
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Adalbert



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: camera with a full electronic shutter Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
Does anybody know any camera with a full electronic shutter?
I mean a full-fledged one, so that you can use flash etc.
BR, ADi
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 856
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several cameras allow electronic-only shutter with flash. However, there are limitations in synchronization speed (among others).

As an example, the Olympus E-M1 Mark II is limited to 1/50 s or slower (up to ISO 6,400; it differs at higher ISOs, but for our purposes high-ISO is rarely used).

Electronic-only shutter has also undeclared limitations. For example, with the E-M1 Mark II, short exposures are possible (even 1/2,000 s), but with times shorter than 1/250 with continuous light sources I get a pretty bad horizontal striping, which gradually disappears at longer exposure times. It is usually undetectable at 1/250-1/125 s and slower.

I have read that many other cameras of different brands have similar problems. Firmware upgrades may fix this (or improve it), but the reports on so many camera models suggest that this is an intrinsic problem with current electronic-only shutters.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1487
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enrico,

What does that "horizontal striping" look like, is it the same as "rolling shutter" effect?

1/50 electronic shutter flash sync speed sounds too slow to freeze some fast protist movements under microscope. Maybe one can lower scope's continuous light source a lot to try to reduce light pollution.

I just bought a used Olympus E-M10 Mark II for its electronic shutter and in-camera focus bracketing. Hopefully it works well. E-M5 Mark II or E-M1 Mark II are still kind of expensive.........
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 1799
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell, this is only a problem when the light source itself is modulated, as in some LEDs and all fluorescent lamps. I have never seen any trace of this with the light sources I use. Fully electronic shutter is the only thing I ever use, because it is vibration-free and doesn't wear out the camera when making deep stacks. I love it and can no longer stand the stupid slapping mirrors of most Nikon cameras.

I use the Olympus PEN F by the way.

Synch speed is irrelevant in micro work if you are using flash, which you probably would be using when you want to freeze motion.
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Lou Jost
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
.....Synch speed is irrelevant in micro work if you are using flash, which you probably would be using when you want to freeze motion.


It depends what your "micro work" is. For reflected light super macro in a dark room without other strong light source, 1/50 shutter + sync flash is probably enough to freeze motion.

But under the strong transmitted light of a microscope light source, 1/50 shutter will let in quite a bit of continuous (slow) light and likely won't freeze the fast moving cilia of a protist.
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:
Enrico,

What does that "horizontal striping" look like, is it the same as "rolling shutter" effect?

1/50 electronic shutter flash sync speed sounds too slow to freeze some fast protist movements under microscope. Maybe one can lower scope's continuous light source a lot to try to reduce light pollution.

I just bought a used Olympus E-M10 Mark II for its electronic shutter and in-camera focus bracketing. Hopefully it works well. E-M5 Mark II or E-M1 Mark II are still kind of expensive.........

This is a 1:1 pixel crop:

Exposure was 1/500 s.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Enrico.
I will pay attention to it, when I receive my E-M10 II.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fan, of course you would turn off the microscope light when taking a stack with flash.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Fan, of course you would turn off the microscope light when taking a stack with flash.


Again it depends on application. Sometimes it is not convenient to turn off microscope light. At least that is not always practical for my purpose.

For example, many live protists under cover slip and microscope light may pause a short time for a very shallow stack or a single shot, but won't stop long enough for deep stack. By turning off scope light you won't be able to follow/monitor live protists (they may run off half way into the stack, without you noticing it). And mechanical shutter would cause protists to move.

I do understand it if it is not an issue for others though.
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Adalbert



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
Actually I only wanted to use the electronical shutter to prevent damage to the mechanical one.
You know, some thousands of photographs a week Sad
It would be perfect, if the E-M1 Mark II had the flash sync at 1/32000s :-)
BR, ADi
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