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Optiphot DIC help
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Optiphot DIC help Reply with quote

Hi guys
I could use some help trying to figure out what is going on here.
I am using Nikon Optiphot 2 microscopes and I have one model that I have been using with dic and it works well for me.
I am no expert but I know how to do the lower polarizer adjustment and set the universal condenser to the correct position / prism for the objective being used and am getting good results with this scope.
I just purchased another dic intermediate tube and dic slider that are supposed to be for an Optiphot scope.
The tube and slider look similar to the current one I have but are not exactly the same.
I have seen pics on the internet of what looks like the ones I just got on other Optiphot 2 scopes.
The problem I am having is I can not get the dic effect from this tube and slider when I put it on my current scope .
I can get polarization effect but when I position the slider polarization goes away and no matter how I adjust the slider I get no dic effect.
I am using a adjustable polarizer below a universal condenser that has 20,40 and 100 prisms in it.
The scope will focus fine with these parts in place.
Sorry I don’t know all the technical terms for what is going on here.
Did I get the wrong slider for this scope?
Is this the wrong type of condenser to use with this type of slider?
The slider that is not working is Nikon DIC-A 25098
There is a polarizer above the slider and I think I have the polarizer correctly positioned in the slider - white dot is up.
I have included pics of the scope set up that is not working for me and the components I am using.
Any advise is welcome.


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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

(1) That's an obvious question, but what does your old (working) slider look like? Can you post a picture with both side-by-side?

(2) So you have one condenser at the moment, and you're testing both your old and new sliders on the same microscope?

(3) I have the same slider on an Optiphot 2. I also have been unable to find a manual for this DIC-A system on Optiphot 2 http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33007 However, I'm wondering if it has something to do with the condenser. There are "Universal" condensers marked "Con.A" which might possibly be different from yours. http://spectraservices2.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Nikonuniversalcondenser

(4) I would start by checking the orientation of the interference fringes. In your working setup, put in both polarisers in the correct orientation. Take out one of the eyepieces to observe the back of the microscope objective. Now slide in the DIC slider and check the angle of the interference fringes. Normally they run from SW to NE: https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/dic-microscope-component-alignment [Requires ?FLASH/?Java plugin; chose "Nomarski" and then "Objective prism"]

Now slide out the DIC slider (leave the upper polariser in place) and slide in one of the condenser prisms. The interference fring should have the same (usually SW-NE) orientation.

Now test your new DIC-A slider on the same setup. The fringe orientation should be same as the old slider and the condenser. If not, the systems are incompatible. It might be possible to use the adjustments on the intermediate tube to switch the orientation of the slider by 90 degrees (before you do that maybe come back here).

(5) I can see only phase contrast objectives on your turret. Do they work well with your old DIC? Do you have any brightfield or DIC versions, just in case that's the source of your problems?

Regards, Ichty
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sumguy01,

I have emailed an Optiphot DIC owner on behalf of you. He has not been in touch for a while though, so please be patient.

I read that, in theory, phase objectives don't work very well with DIC.

I have an Optiphot I (without DIC, with Leitz Heine oblique light) as my primary scope. I have been to Ketchikan and like the place very much.

Cheers,
Fan
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys for the reply.
Here is a little more info.
These are pics of the intermediate tube with slider that work on the scope.
There is no identification on the working slider except for the 1.25.
I am trying to get the new parts to work on the existing dic scope that works fine in dic.
I am using the Nikon objectives that are dic rated
My lower polarizer is rotatable and sits directly above the light source and below the universal condenser.
With the slider in place I have no color shift when I rotate the slider adjustment.
I am going to try to pursue some of your ideas later today.




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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

As you can see, the old slider (same as here? http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23935 ) has a different orientation (W-E) from the new DIC-A slider (NW-SE).

The question then is if the orientation of the fringes is also different. Just have a look at the tutorial https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/dic-microscope-component-alignment

Unless someone here has the answer ready, just work out the fringe orientations of the condenser, the old and new sliders and go from there.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a reply from the microscopist who owns a DIC Optiphot:

Quote

The condenser I have is labeled Nikon DIC AChr-Apl 1.35 Japan. No part number or other designation that I can see.

The top prism+analyzer has no numbers or other designation at all (not even "Nikon" or "DIC").

I know this is not much help. I will, in a couple of days, take pictures of both parts and email them to you in case this might help. The unit I have is I think an early version, and not their later improved version.

Unquote

Do you think photos of his part will help at all? I will ask about his DIC slider orientation.
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
zzffnn it sounds like your friend has the same set up as mine.
I also have one of those condensers.
At this point I think I should see if someone can tell me if the universal condenser A is the problem.
I have seen the new intermediate tube and what appears to be the same slider thats not working for me on another Optiphot on the internet and it was also being use with a universal condenser A.
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 797
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my DIC setup for my Nikon Optiphot Biological, intermediate adapter and condenser.

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curt0909



Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 607
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your first thought is correct, the slider and condenser are not compatible. Your condenser has prisms in a 90 degree(from front) orientation, so it needs a combining prism at 90 degrees. Your new combining prism is set at a 45 degree angle and is designed to be used with a different condenser. I believe Nikon used the 90 degree orientation first, then moved to the 45 degree angle, lastly they changed to using separate objective specific DIC prisms at a 45 degree angle which fit into a special nosepiece. They kept this last design and still use it today on their Eclipse line. I hope this helps.
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 797
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for jumping in here Curt. Hopefully someday I'll be able to be more specific with my answers.
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for the help and info.
Smokedaddy yours looks the same as mine.
So am I assuming correctly that if I had a universal A condenser that this new slider set up will work on my Optiphot 2 scope?
If so does anyone have one they want to sell?
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sumguy01,

Now that Curt has commented here, this information problay won't help anymore. But I will post just in case it helps someone else:

My friend said that the orientation of his dark band (fringe?) is north-south.
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This forum is great Very Happy
You guys are awesome.
Thanks for all your help and ideas.
Applause
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, this can sometimes be made to work by changing the orientation of the condenser (turn by 45 degrees horizontally). I don't know if that works mechanically in this case (there might be substage stuff in the way) but it works on other microscopes.
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Choronzon



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 370
Location: Chicago USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you can just change the orientation of the condenser prisms themselves. They're threaded.



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