www.photomacrography.net :: View topic - Macro Focusing Rails
www.photomacrography.net Forum Index
An online community dedicated to the practices of photomacrography, close-up and macro photography, and photomicrography.
Photomacrography Front Page Amateurmicrography Front Page
Old Forums/Galleries
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Macro Focusing Rails
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Macro Focusing Rails Reply with quote

Hi,

This is my first post on the site. I'm looking at buying a focusing rail. At this point I don't think I want anything motorized. I'd like to know if anyone has had any experience using either the:

1. Arca Swiss: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1029585-REG/arca_swiss_802330_monoball_x_table_system.html

2. Hejnar: http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/product-p/ms3_8x8.htm

In closing, I'm also open to other suggestions if you think I've over looked another rail.
Thanks,
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1076
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both rails you linked to are XY, so they contain 2 rails. Do you need to have ability to move the camera in both X and Y?

Maybe you can write a bit about your goals with the rail. Will you be using it for manual focus stacking, or single shots? At what magnification?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to start with manual focus stacking. With regards to magnification; at this point I'll start with 1:1. I'm using a Nikon D810 and either the Nikon 105mm F/2.8 or the Sigma 150mm f/2.8. Do I need the ability to move the camera in both X and Y axis? At this point I really don't know; I'm just starting out. Hope this helps. Thank you replying.

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1076
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lothman



Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 286
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChrisR
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 7257
Location: Near London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike - note that your model #1 will have a much less fine movement than the one with the longitudinal thread.
Type 1 maybe 20mm/revolution,
Type 2 maybe 1.25mm/revolution.

For stacking you find the finer one, much easier to control.
1:1 will need steps less than 1mm.
_________________
Chris R


Last edited by ChrisR on Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray


Ray,
That's good to know I can save a little money. Any suggestions?
If I use my Sigma 150mm 2.8, I can do either vertical or horizontal because it has a collar. If I use my 105 2.8, that's obviously a different story but my D810 does have a Kirk "L Bracket".
I can either mount it on a tripod or a Kirk "Low Pod" which is a table top support.
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lothman wrote:
today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA


Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisR wrote:
Mike - note that your model #1 will have a much less fine movement than the one with the longitudinal thread.
Type 1 maybe 20mm/revolution,
Type 2 maybe 1.25mm/revolution.

For stacking you find the finer one much easier to control.
1:1 will need steps less than 1mm.


Hi ChrisR.

Thanks for replying. If I'm understanding you correctly, the Hejnar rail would be easier to control for stacking. That rail is also available in a single access so I could save some money.

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rjlittlefield
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18248
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:
today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA


Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike

The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mannheim62



Joined: 08 Nov 2017
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:
today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA


Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike

The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik


Rik,
Thanks for replying and including the links. I think I'd be willing to spend more money and buy it once ... if you understand my train of thought. Another way to put it is: I'd like to buy something I can grow into instead of out-of. I hope I'm making sense ... it's been a long day. Smile
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gaconsooner



Joined: 06 Jul 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using this one for extreme macro, though I'm not super professional

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-XY-Axis-Stages-Replacement-Linear-Stage-Ball-Bearing-Manually-Platform-13mm/272673196675?hash=item3f7c96ca83:g:c40AAOSwstxVSdaj

The minimum step interval is 0.01mm, which is really good for 5-8x magnification. you need to modify it a bit to place your camera on it and put the whole system on a non-moving stage (tripod is also doable)

Hope this help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 985

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mannheim62 wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:
today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA


Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike

The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik


Rik,
Thanks for replying and including the links. I think I'd be willing to spend more money and buy it once ... if you understand my train of thought. Another way to put it is: I'd like to buy something I can grow into instead of out-of. I hope I'm making sense ... it's been a long day. Smile
Mike


Mike,

I know you indicated that you didn't think you want anything motorized for a focus rail, however if you are considering spending the $ indicated for a manual rail why not consider a motorized rail such as the Cognisys Stackshot rail system which does not require any computer?

The other motorized rail systems discussed on this site, such as the Wemacro and MJKZZ, do require additional computers (smartphones or laptops or pads), but the Stackshot System is completely stand along.

All the rail systems mentioned can perform steps below 10 microns for high precision work. The Stackshot & Wemacro rails systems have battery packs for field use as well.

Anyway, these motorized rails are certainly something you can "grow into". Hope this helps.

Best,

Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lothman



Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 286
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mannheim62 wrote:
lothman wrote:
today I received an Ishoot 150mm macro rail from eBay. It is an excellent made product for its price (60$).
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Focusing-Close-up-Shooting-Arca-Swiss/dp/B01NAMWTMA


Thank you so much for replying. I'll definitely take a closer look at this item.

Mike

The iShoot rail gets mixed reviews. I find it OK for low magnification work, but see the discussion at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35021 and links therein.

--Rik


mine has much less as the 1mm backslash mentioned by enricosavazzi. As long as we stack in only one direction backslash is no issue. But when you want to focus forth and back at high magnification this is of course annoying.

For a beginner I strongly recommend a 60$ Ishoot rail, the best I know for such small money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1076
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mannheim62 wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:
Mike,

For stacking you only need one axis, so you can make do with a much cheaper rail.

A couple more questions:

Do you plan having the camera horizontal, or vertical?
What will the rail mount to? (Tripod, copy stand, optical breadboard, etc)

Ray


Ray,
That's good to know I can save a little money. Any suggestions?
If I use my Sigma 150mm 2.8, I can do either vertical or horizontal because it has a collar. If I use my 105 2.8, that's obviously a different story but my D810 does have a Kirk "L Bracket".
I can either mount it on a tripod or a Kirk "Low Pod" which is a table top support.
Mike


The Low Pod looks to be a good way to go for a horizontal mount.

Once you start doing focus stacking, especially if you increase in magnification, you will likely soon tire of the manual adjustments and will be looking for an automated solution. With respect to your statements about not wanting to go automated right away, I can only suggest to minimize your expenditures for the manual focus rail by buying an inexpensive one that will adequately do your initial work at 1:1 but doesn't offer the precision required for higher magnifications. I would still concentrate on getting a worm gear driven rail, rather than a rack and pinion type, since they are more precise, especially if they have a large-ish knob.

If you agree with the philosophy above, then there are a couple of inexpensive options to work with. The iShoot rail already recommended (with backlash reservations) is one inexpensive option. Even more inexpensive options are available on eBay, and they likely all have issues of backlash and such. In my experience, backlash and other unwanted movements are not such a big problem, as long as you move your rail beyond your starting point, then move in only one direction during the stack.

Here are a couple to look at:

This one looks like a copy of an older rail marketed by Spiratone:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wormdrive-Macro-Rail-Fine-Focus-Focusing-Arca-RRS-Lever-Clamp-Compatible-Metal/361387505885?hash=item54245fb8dd:g:qdIAAOSwEetV9fOA

This one looks to have a fairly fine pitch screw, and like the Hejnars has very nice feature of adjustments from each end.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MENGS-W-160-Macro-Focusing-Rail-For-DSLR-Camera-Compatible-with-Arca-Swiss/352166514613?hash=item51fec28fb5:g:bbwAAOSwzilZvMCD

I can't directly vouch for either of these, but I have just ordered examples of both to test. I really like the MENGS, with its dual-drive system, as it gives a hint that it might be convertible for automation. I may try it out as a manual rail, then attempt a conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group