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4X Test - Any Advice?
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: 4X Test - Any Advice? Reply with quote



Later this month or early next month I plan to run a comparison at 4X to find the winners and losers in the stack of 4X objectives I own.

It would be great to get some input with ideas and suggestions before I start the test.

For the objectives I am planning on running the test on a 24MP APS-C Sony body. Planning on running this in 2-3 stages. Test subject is going to be a Silicon wafer.

Low End Objectives

$17 Amscope 4X/0.1
Nikon Plan CFI 4X/0.13 knurled ring
Nikon BE Plan 4X/0.1
Nikon E Plan 4X/0.1
Nikon Plan 4X/0.1 gold barrel
LaboMed Semi Plan 4X/0.1

High End Objectives

Nikon Plan Fluor 4X/0.13
Nikon Plan APO 4X/0.16 finite (old CF type)
Nikon Plan APO 4X/0.20 infinity nano crystal
Nikon Plan APO 4X/0.20 finite (new type)
Nikon S Fluor 4x /0.20
Nikon MM 3X
Nikon MM 5X

Lenses

Canon MPE65
Canon MP20
Canon MP35

Extras

I also have these laying around that I can throw on the 4X setup or run these in a separate comparison.

Schneider Componon 28mm f/4 old black barrel
Schneider Componon 28mm f/4 Plastic Enlarger barrel
Schneider Componon 35mm f/4 Plastic Enlarger barrel
Schneider Componon 28mm f/2.8 V-mount
Schneider Componon 45mm f/4 V-mount

Suggestions, ideas, recommendations?

BTW, I have seen these two very good 4X tests posted here in the past.

Shootout at 4-6x
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19252

and

4x lenses and objectives shootout
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22688


Last edited by RobertOToole on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it has already been done (in which case I would like to hear about it), but it might be interesting to test The Apo Componon HM 40 mm f/2.8 with the Apo Componon HM 45 mm f/4, since you already have the latter in your list.
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 156
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi;

Could you add Lomo 3.7 to the list if you have one?

Thanks.
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1494
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

I can loan you my LOMO 3.7x objective and will include enough stamps for shipping both ways, if you would test it and don't have it yet.

Please let me know, thank you. I suspect its corners won't be as good as the AmScope.

To reduce your effort, a ranking list or two would be good for me (I trust your judgement), you don't have to post many side by side photo comparisons. Or however you want to do it.

I can send you my Schneider Componon S 50mm F/2.8 as well, though I am not sure if you want it - you already have lots of Schneider's there.
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Last edited by zzffnn on Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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JH



Joined: 09 Mar 2013
Posts: 946
Location: Vallentuna, Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking forward to the results, especially the comparison between the Nikon 4x infinity lenses. One thought from my side is that the microscope objectives have high NA but a small image circle. On a microscope this is no problems because you use a eyepiece or a photo projection lens that enlarges the image. Therefore I use a tube lens or a teleconverter that matches the image circle with the camera sensor. For 4x on a FF sensor with a microscope objective the best sharpness option might be a 2x plan apo NA 0.1 lens and a 2x teleconverter. This will of course give you a short WD.

Best regards Jörgen Hellberg
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

What about a Mitutoyo 5X Inf 200mm brought down to ~4X with a 160mm tube lens?

Best,

Mike
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 1077
Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want also to test the 5xMM and 3xMM as Infinites.

The B&L 3.5x is a good one for low end testing.

I can loan you an Inspec.x L 4.0/105 3.5x if you don't have one, though pushing it to 4x will take quite the long extension.

And of course the 75PN. If only someone had one.

edited to add:

The Lomo Mikroplanars and Zeiss Mikrotars are good in this range.
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 915
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: 4X Test - Any Advice? Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
...Suggestions, ideas, recommendations?...


Schneider Componon 80mm f4
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
Maybe it has already been done (in which case I would like to hear about it), but it might be interesting to test The Apo Componon HM 40 mm f/2.8 with the Apo Componon HM 45 mm f/4, since you already have the latter in your list.


Hi Enrico,

Thats a good idea. Now I just need to find one for a good price.

I am thinking about splitting off the 28 to 45mm lens part of the test using the same target of course.

Thanks for the input.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zzffnn wrote:
Robert,

I can loan you my LOMO 3.7x objective and will include enough stamps for shipping both ways, if you would test it an don't have it yet.

Please let me know, thank you. I suspect its corners won't be as good as the AmScope.

To reduce your effort, a ranking list or two would be good for me (I trust your judgement), you don't have to post many side by side photo comparisons. Or however you want to do it.

I can send you my Schneider Componon S 50mm F/2.8 as well, though I am not sure if you want it - you already have lots of Schneider's there.


Yes, please. I will PM you my details. Thanks.

Yes, I like the Componon S 50 a lot. I have two. One in V-mount and one in 39mm. Do you think the 50 would do well at 4X? I have not used it at the level, maybe 2-3 max.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JH wrote:
I am looking forward to the results, especially the comparison between the Nikon 4x infinity lenses. One thought from my side is that the microscope objectives have high NA but a small image circle. On a microscope this is no problems because you use a eyepiece or a photo projection lens that enlarges the image. Therefore I use a tube lens or a teleconverter that matches the image circle with the camera sensor. For 4x on a FF sensor with a microscope objective the best sharpness option might be a 2x plan apo NA 0.1 lens and a 2x teleconverter. This will of course give you a short WD.

Best regards Jörgen Hellberg


Thanks for the idea.

I might do that as a side-project add-on since I have never tried a objective+T/C myself.

Thanks for the input Jörgen.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
Robert,

What about a Mitutoyo 5X Inf 200mm brought down to ~4X with a 160mm tube lens?

Best,

Mike


Hi Mike,

I was going to try to stay away from the Mity, but I do have a 4X. What is a good 160mm tube lens? I have a Raynox 6x, thats 170mm, that would be what 4.25x?

Robert
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zzffnn



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 1494
Location: Texas USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert,

I was told that the Schneider Componon S 50mm F/2.8 may not work as well at 4x or above and that it is sharp at around F/4. Though I am not positive.

I have not done any test myself and don't have the skills to do it properly either.

I will send you just the LOMO 3.7x.
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Selling my 20x phase objective for Petri dish viewing
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
You may want also to test the 5xMM and 3xMM as Infinites.

The B&L 3.5x is a good one for low end testing.

I can loan you an Inspec.x L 4.0/105 3.5x if you don't have one, though pushing it to 4x will take quite the long extension.

And of course the 75PN. If only someone had one.

edited to add:

The Lomo Mikroplanars and Zeiss Mikrotars are good in this range.


Thanks for the all of the input Ray, I appreciate it.

Will let you know.

Oh yes, the super rare 75PN! Have you seen a single one show itself in the wild ?

If the 4X test results come out half as well as your 4-6X test did Ray, I will be happy.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 415
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: 4X Test - Any Advice? Reply with quote

Saul wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:
...Suggestions, ideas, recommendations?...


Schneider Componon 80mm f4


Thanks Saul.

Have you tried it at the high mag?

Robert
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