A report on Nikon D850 silent live view

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A report on Nikon D850 silent live view

Post by Chris S. »

Over at the fredmiranda.com forum, Nathan Padgett has written a brief, useful post called "My thoughts on the D850's silent mode". For anyone interested in this topic, it's worth a read.

A couple days ago, in our forum, Charlie raised the following question:
Charles Krebs wrote:. . . (is it) possible to trigger an electronic flash from live-view with the camera set to "silent live view"? If possible it would be great to know if this is possible with both a Nikon brand flash, as well as with a "non-dedicated" manual flash (like a studio flash or an inexpensive manual YongNuo or similar).
Padgett happens to address this (in a post later in his thread):

"Another quick note about the silent mode...... it does not fire the flash. While I can see why you wouldn't want flash if you've chosen to shoot silently, but for when your just trying to use those extreme high/low angles with the tilty screen and you need flash.....you'll have to switch to the regular live view mode."

Drat!

--Chris S.
Last edited by Chris S. on Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Yeah... I was afraid of that. Overall it looks to be an amazing camera.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Looks like I'm going to have to design a circuit to allow use of flash in silent mode with the D850.

Hopefully I'll be getting it soon to try this out!!

Best,

Mike

Steve S
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Post by Steve S »

Electronic shutters in DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are generally scanning things -- they take a while to sweep across the frame, they are not "global" electronic shutters, so they do not play nice with lighting of brief duration or cycling, eg at twice mains frequency.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/58166 ... -to-know/2

Actually, not all you need to know...

banania
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Post by banania »

I wonder if it is possible to use continuous shooting mode with the full electronic shutter, without the mirror slapping between shots. Or even single shot mode with no waiting period between shots, if there is any difference between these two modes. What I am thinking about is Helicon Remote focus bracketing with electronic shutter and the mirror glued up. Fast stacking...

Anyone seen reports about this?

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

mawyatt wrote:Looks like I'm going to have to design a circuit to allow use of flash in silent mode with the D850.
Mike,
You should think about making it "universal" for EFSC cameras and other cameras with fully electronic shutters.

A single input starts the camera exposure and simultaneously another timer adjustable output/connector for flash sync. For any given camera, a little testing and adjustment should determine what camera shutter speed needs to be set, and the needed flash "delay" setting.

It would be a pretty slow shutter speed. (The Olympus MFT are the only readily available camera that offer an electronic shutter with flash sync and it is 1/20 sec). But for many of our purposes here it shouldn't matter that much since for studio stacking we have full control over ambient illumination.

Some time ago I had thought of doing this for my Canon bodies, but decided my very limited electronics skills were not up to it. For you it should be a "piece of cake"! :wink: :wink:

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Charles Krebs wrote:
mawyatt wrote:Looks like I'm going to have to design a circuit to allow use of flash in silent mode with the D850.
Mike,
You should think about making it "universal" for EFSC cameras and other cameras with fully electronic shutters.

A single input starts the camera exposure and simultaneously another timer adjustable output/connector for flash sync. For any given camera, a little testing and adjustment should determine what camera shutter speed needs to be set, and the needed flash "delay" setting.

It would be a pretty slow shutter speed. (The Olympus MFT are the only readily available camera that offer an electronic shutter with flash sync and it is 1/20 sec). But for many of our purposes here it shouldn't matter that much since for studio stacking we have full control over ambient illumination.

Some time ago I had thought of doing this for my Canon bodies, but decided my very limited electronics skills were not up to it. For you it should be a "piece of cake"! :wink: :wink:
Charles,

I've sketched out a simple delay timer like you mentioned. It's based upon a couple 555 type timers. The idea is to detect the falling edge of the switch closure that triggers the Nikon cameras by way of a remote. This is how the Stackshot controller initiates an exposure for Nikons, I assume it's the same for Canon, Olympus, and Sony, but don't know. A variable delay is setup with a 555 timer that will allow positioning the flash trigger pulse "inside" the effective electronic shutter window, thus allowing the entire sensor to "see" the exposure. The flash trigger pulse is implemented with another 555 timer.

My thinking is to put this inside a small box that is in-line with the Stackshot trigger cable, or the Wemacro or MJKZZ controller cables.

Hopefully this will be universal enough for use with most cameras we use. I'll post the schematic here if I can get someone to build some and ship me one :D

Maybe Peter or William are listening :roll:

Best,

Mike

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Mike
My thinking is to put this inside a small box that is in-line with the Stackshot trigger cable, or the Wemacro or MJKZZ controller cables.
Exactly!

Take a look at this, you will find it interesting. Don't know if this would be a common "problem" or specific to Riks camera model.
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=13726

Steve S
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Post by Steve S »

Jim Kasson has measured the readout speeds for some electronic shutters: Sony A7rII about 1/14 sec, Fujifilm GFX-50s fully 1/4 sec. Camera manufacturers could offer flash triggering at a suitable delay with suitably long shutter speeds, but presumably some feel it would create more confusion than it's worth, or else they feel there's little demand for synchronized flash at such long exposure times.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Steve S wrote: Camera manufacturers could offer flash triggering at a suitable delay with suitably long shutter speeds, but presumably some feel it would create more confusion than it's worth, or else they feel there's little demand for synchronized flash at such long exposure times.
I'm sure you are correct. Also, I can imagine a marketing guy just cringing at the thought of trying to sell a 1/4 to 1/15 sync speed :wink:

Our needs and wants here can occasionally be very different from what most photographers desire.

So as far as I know it is only Olympus (1/20 sec and slower) and the huge (and hugely expensive) Phase One (1.3 sec and slower) that offer electronic shutter + flash sync. Until we get "global shutter readout" sensors that can match the quality we've gotten used to, this probably will not change too much.

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Charles Krebs wrote:Mike
My thinking is to put this inside a small box that is in-line with the Stackshot trigger cable, or the Wemacro or MJKZZ controller cables.
Exactly!

Take a look at this, you will find it interesting. Don't know if this would be a common "problem" or specific to Riks camera model.
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=13726
Charles,

Interesting thread. I sure hope the D850 does not have the variability that Rik reported.

Best,

Mike

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