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Perfect alignment, how?
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lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 225
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Perfect alignment, how? Reply with quote

How to be sure that our camera, tube system, lens and carrier rail is absolutely straight and moving absolutely straight?
Bubble level? Laser? or just make a stack and see?

How to detect it without taking many photos?

I need a simple but effective advice.



( Bytheway what do you think about my paint skills Smile )
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Omer
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Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 800

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Omer,

For microscope alignment, pinholes are used that screw into the various mount threads.

So pinholes and lasers, maybe?
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 19090
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Perfect alignment, how? Reply with quote

lonepal wrote:
How to detect it without taking many photos?

This is a common question.

As far as I know, nobody has ever come up with a good answer.

In the end, there is always some "gotcha", like "And how do you know that your laser is exactly lined up along the optical axis?"

The best method I know relies on taking pictures and seeing if the center stays centered.

--Rik
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1108
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that it matters, I know how to laser collimate a telescope but haven't a clue what the process would be elsewhere. Couldn't you draw a couple of diagonals on the output test image to find the sensor intersection then see if the laser is at that intersection.

On a similar note, I would like to know how to verify that your camera sensor is parallel with a flat specimen, such as a wafer, or semiconductor die.

-JW:
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smokedaddy wrote:
...On a similar note, I would like to know how to verify that your camera sensor is parallel with a flat specimen, such as a wafer, or semiconductor die.


I'm using Plumb Bob 5 or SurfaceLevel 4 apps, works great for me.
Phone on the microscope table (calibrate to 0) & camera LCD screen aftewards - adjustment.
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Saul, I should of been clearer. I was talking about a horizontal camera and specimen setup (wafer, semiconductor die etc.).

-JW:
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smokedaddy wrote:
Thanks Saul, I should of been clearer. I was talking about a horizontal camera and specimen setup (wafer, semiconductor die etc.).

-JW:


For adjustment hang it on the wall Wink
If seriously - it is better to see your horizontal setup. App allows calibration at the any position - so use rubber bands to attach to the camera LCD screen and something similar to your wafer holder
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offence, you don't understand the question. <g> A level would do no good. Getting the specimen parallel (or very close) could save taking several dozen (depending on the steps) of unnecessary images. I know HOW to make the necessary adjustments via a specimen rotating stage but not how to accurately achieve parallelism.





-JW:


Last edited by Smokedaddy on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, I didn't understand the question . Can you keep your horizontal setup temporarily vertically to accurately achieve parallelism with the app ?
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That wouldn't make a difference (if I understand what you're saying). It's a big deal 'for me'. If I'm trying to make a panorama of a semiconductor die and divide the die it up into 12 sections, parallelism becomes a big deal in many ways (horizontal and vertical parallelism too). Not only does it become a PITA focus wise but all the additional images that need to be stacked.



-JW:
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saul wrote:
use rubber bands to attach to the camera LCD screen

I hope I'm missing something, but why do you believe your LCD screen is parallel to your sensor?

No, I'm not deliberately trying to be cheeky, although sometimes I achieve it by accident. But if the screen tilts, then I don't know any reason to think that the rest position will be parallel to the sensor. If the screen is fixed, I still don't know any reason to think that it's parallel to the sensor to the same level necessary to achieve 4-corner focus. Likewise for the frame of the eyepiece.

For centering, at least, it might be very handy if somebody sold a laser in a camera lens mount, precisely manufactured so that the laser beam lies along the optical axis. But I have not seen such a beast.

Smokedaddy wrote:
how to accurately achieve parallelism

I use Live View and adjust alignment until all sides of the image are in focus at the same time. I assume that this fails somehow with your panorama setup, but I would like to hear the details of how that works.

--Rik
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1151
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:
...
I hope I'm missing something, but why do you believe your LCD screen is parallel to your sensor?...--Rik


I checked parallelism between camera mount and LCD. How it is accurate - this is another question (app, Iphone's geometry, how mount is parallel to the sensor etc ). For my purpose it worked OK (original idea to use this type of app came from Morfa).

Original discussion:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11889&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rjlittlefield wrote:

It might be very handy if somebody sold a laser in a camera lens mount, precisely manufactured so that the laser beam lies along the optical axis. But I have not seen such a beast.


Telescope wise they make very precise (and calibrated) laser collimators, some expensive and some not.

https://www.collimator.com/category/laser-collimators

http://syoshi-i.s287.xrea.com/kizai_tyokusyou_index/kizai_kyoutou/vc200l/vc200l_koujiku.html

and some use a star (and even evaluate the optics).

http://garyseronik.com/no-tools-telescope-collimation/

http://www.astrophoto.fr/collim.html

Smokedaddy wrote:
how to accurately achieve parallelism

rjlittlefield wrote:

I use Live View and adjust alignment until all sides of the image are in focus at the same time. I assume that this fails somehow with your panorama setup, but I would like to hear the details of how that works.
--Rik


Live View doesn't work for me at all. Maybe if I had some sort of test test target with vertical and horizontal divisions on it and if I was able to visually distinguish when the left and right most, upper most and lower most, lines were in focus that would help ... dunno. Now that I have the EOS Utility setup on my computer, that might be helpful but I haven't tried it with a panorama like I described. I suppose the most logical setup would be to use my MM-11 and epi illumination. I just thought someone here might have already solved that problem.

-JW:
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elf



Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1351

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you stitching the panorama: orthogonal, spherical, or cylindrical?
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Smokedaddy



Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how to answer that sorry, in PTGui, I've used many different projections (rectilinear, cylindrical, transverse equirectangular, etc.), or ICE or Photoshop photomerge similar.
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