Bellows Recommendation?

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Deanimator
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Bellows Recommendation?

Post by Deanimator »

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding a reasonably priced set of bellows?

They'll be used on my Canon T4i, both with my Tokina 100mm macro and [with suitable adapters[ other non-Canon mount lenses.

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

For a long time, I used a Canon Autobellows FD for my vertical setup. The CFD mount is easy to adapt to EOS for the camera. On the lens side, I used CFD-M42 adapters. This gave a bayonet mount for mounting the lens.

I since built a new vertical setup using a Pentax Auto Bellows. This is an M42 bellows that is smaller than the Canon, so a bit more compact. I tend to swap lenses quite a bit, for doing full-coin imaging, and different mag levels for details. I found that it's really tedious to have to mount or remove lenses with the M42 mount. I know folks often recommend M42 as a great intermediate mount, and I have done that recommendation myself many times, but the reality of dealing with screw mounts set in very quickly.

I really liked the Pentax bellows other than the M42 lens mount, so I ended up removing the M42 mount from the front standard and replacing it with a CFD mount. Now I have the compact quality of the Pentax with the ease of installation and removal of the lenses that the CFD bayonet affords.

I also prefer the Pentax camera standard over the Canon, as it is more easily rotated, and easy to remove the camera from the bellows with a single set screw.

The drawback to the Pentax: it's not as "tall" as the Canon. This means that full-size DSLRs can't be turned backwards on it while still allowing the camera to be adjusted lower than the farthest-back position. When mounted backwards, ie with the flash/prism pointing toward the rail, the flash/prism sits over the rail. In fact you need to put a bit of extension on the camera standard to clear the rail. The Canon is tall enough that a typical camera has clearance to the rail, so can be rotated 360 degrees.

So for your T4i, you would just need a M42 lens-EOS camera adapter if you want to mount it for +/-90-deg rotation, or add a bit of extension for 360-deg. For camera side, you could replace the M42 mount with an EOS mount. I am not sure if you can find EOS lens-M42 camera adapter.

Ray

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:For a long time, I used a Canon Autobellows FD for my vertical setup. The CFD mount is easy to adapt to EOS for the camera. On the lens side, I used CFD-M42 adapters. This gave a bayonet mount for mounting the lens.
Is there a currently available set of bellows which you would recommend?

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Ahh, I took your request for "reasonably priced" as likely meaning vintage. What do you consider "reasonable"? And by "currently available" I presume you mean newly-manufactured? The only bellows I know of being currently manufactured (other than the plastic Chinese ones) are Novoflex, and those will cost you perhaps $700-900 or more. So please define your terms.

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:Ahh, I took your request for "reasonably priced" as likely meaning vintage. What do you consider "reasonable"? And by "currently available" I presume you mean newly-manufactured? The only bellows I know of being currently manufactured (other than the plastic Chinese ones) are Novoflex, and those will cost you perhaps $700-900 or more. So please define your terms.
Obviously the Novoflex is out. That's more than my camera AND my Wemacro that's coming.

I'm not real big on eBay, although I've bought things there. I mostly stick to Amazon, since I have Prime and don't usually have to worry about what I buy (hence my almost instant refund on my Jansjos which fell into the USPS black hole).

Unfortunately, Cleveland is a really bad place for new camera gear, much less deals on used stuff.
  • Are you specifically talking about Canon and or Pentax bellows?
  • Is there anything besides the Novoflex that's currently being made that you'd recommend?

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

I don't know of any currently-made gear between the plastic Chinese bellows and the Novoflex. Maybe someone else on the forum has info on other options.

A third option is the Vivitar Bellows. It is T-mount so very easy to mount any camera you want, but not quite as easy on the lens side. It is a modular system, so if you need the focus rail you must buy it separately. Generally speaking, you will probably spend less on a Pentax or Canon, which include the focus rail, than on the Vivitar, unless you get lucky. I have never used a Vivitar in one of my own systems, but I have integrated them into several systems for other folks (vertical systems for coin photography) and they have been pleased with the performance.

The decision may come down to how you plan to use the bellows. We know the camera you're planning (T4i) but what lens(es) do you plan to use? And how do you plan to mount the bellows itself?

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:For a long time, I used a Canon Autobellows FD for my vertical setup. The CFD mount is easy to adapt to EOS for the camera. On the lens side, I used CFD-M42 adapters. This gave a bayonet mount for mounting the lens.
A couple of people (one of them Prime) on Amazon have these for sale in "like new" condition.

I notice that these are single "rail" systems version the type with dual rods. Is one better than the other?

As far as attachment to the camera goes, do you use one of the w/glass FD to EOS adapters?

I have ZERO experience with bellows, so your assistance is greatly appreciated.

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Deanimator wrote: A couple of people (one of them Prime) on Amazon have these for sale in "like new" condition.

I notice that these are single "rail" systems version the type with dual rods. Is one better than the other?

As far as attachment to the camera goes, do you use one of the w/glass FD to EOS adapters?

I have ZERO experience with bellows, so your assistance is greatly appreciated.
A CFD Auto Bellows in "like new" sounds great. As a reference, I would expect it to cost ~$100 in that condition.

You can't directly compare single-rail with dual rail, because the dual-rail don't offer a "focus" function. With the dual-rail system, you can only adjust the distance between standards. To move both together for focusing at a fixed magnification, you must add a focus rail of some type. With the single-rail systems, the standards mount to the top of the X rail, while the focus adjust block mounts to the bottom, so you get full function from the single X rail. Downside to the single rail is rigidity. The single rail systems (Pentax, Canon, Nikon) use plastic bearings to clamp the standards and the focus adjust block to the X rail. These are not as rigid as the dual-rail types, and they are much easier to break. You must be more careful when using the single-rail bellows vs the dual-rail.

Do not buy an adapter with glass. Those are designed to give infinity focus for FD lenses, which have shorter flange focal distances than EOS. For macro work, you don't need (and don't want) the glass there. A simple adapter, as thin as you can get, works best. I use this one because it is very thin:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-to-Ca ... SwCGVX71Z1

That one comes from India (with long ship times) but you should be able to find similar on Amazon or other.

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:A CFD Auto Bellows in "like new" sounds great. As a reference, I would expect it to cost ~$100 in that condition.

You can't directly compare single-rail with dual rail, because the dual-rail don't offer a "focus" function. With the dual-rail system, you can only adjust the distance between standards. To move both together for focusing at a fixed magnification, you must add a focus rail of some type. With the single-rail systems, the standards mount to the top of the X rail, while the focus adjust block mounts to the bottom, so you get full function from the single X rail. Downside to the single rail is rigidity. The single rail systems (Pentax, Canon, Nikon) use plastic bearings to clamp the standards and the focus adjust block to the X rail. These are not as rigid as the dual-rail types, and they are much easier to break. You must be more careful when using the single-rail bellows vs the dual-rail.

Do not buy an adapter with glass. Those are designed to give infinity focus for FD lenses, which have shorter flange focal distances than EOS. For macro work, you don't need (and don't want) the glass there. A simple adapter, as thin as you can get, works best. I use this one because it is very thin:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-to-Ca ... SwCGVX71Z1

That one comes from India (with long ship times) but you should be able to find similar on Amazon or other.
Thanks, that's very useful information.

As far as the Vivitar goes, what sorts of adapter(s) would you need. I saw some [apparently] good deals on them as well.

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Deanimator wrote: Thanks, that's very useful information.

As far as the Vivitar goes, what sorts of adapter(s) would you need. I saw some [apparently] good deals on them as well.
You need a T-EOS adapter for the camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bower-T-Mount-C ... Sws19ZhUyH

For the lens end, it depends on the lens threading. Vivitar made a whole range of adapters for their Bellows System, so you can search for one of those. Raf makes a V-M39 replacement mount for the Vivitar. You could also get one of these T-M42 adapters:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T-T2-Male-to-M4 ... Sw0vBUZoTQ

I had Raf make me some Vivitar mounts threaded for the 89mm Kodak Printing Ektar as well. You can get those from his website.

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:You need a T-EOS adapter for the camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bower-T-Mount-C ... Sws19ZhUyH
If all that is is that, I may already have one, since I have a T mount 500mm mirror lens and an adapter for my T4i.

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Deanimator wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:You need a T-EOS adapter for the camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bower-T-Mount-C ... Sws19ZhUyH
If all that is is that, I may already have one, since I have a T mount 500mm mirror lens and an adapter for my T4i.
So then the only issue is adapting your lens to the T-Mount threading.

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:You need a T-EOS adapter for the camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bower-T-Mount-C ... Sws19ZhUyH
If all that is is that, I may already have one, since I have a T mount 500mm mirror lens and an adapter for my T4i.
So then the only issue is adapting your lens to the T-Mount threading.
Exactly, and that depends upon the lens.

To start, it'll be a Tokina 100mm macro and a Minolta 50mm MD reversed (I already have Canon and Minolta reversing rings).

Later, I'd like to get one or more enlarger lenses and one or more microscope objectives.

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

Deanimator wrote: Exactly, and that depends upon the lens.

To start, it'll be a Tokina 100mm macro and a Minolta 50mm MD reversed (I already have Canon and Minolta reversing rings).

Later, I'd like to get one or more enlarger lenses and one or more microscope objectives.
Well, you don't really need a bellows if you're going to stack lenses. Once you get the enlarger lenses and/or objectives, the bellows will be needed.

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Post by Deanimator »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Deanimator wrote: Exactly, and that depends upon the lens.

To start, it'll be a Tokina 100mm macro and a Minolta 50mm MD reversed (I already have Canon and Minolta reversing rings).

Later, I'd like to get one or more enlarger lenses and one or more microscope objectives.
Well, you don't really need a bellows if you're going to stack lenses. Once you get the enlarger lenses and/or objectives, the bellows will be needed.
I don't always stack the Minolta on the Tokina. Sometimes I just reverse the Minolta, which I did tonight, using cheap manual extension tubes. Bellows would give me more flexibility than the extension tubes.

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