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Canon 80D EFSC question

 
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anvancy



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 351
Location: India

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Canon 80D EFSC question Reply with quote

I am using the canon 80D on my wemacro rail. I am facing an odd problem when I enable the EFSC function.

With Liveview mode on and LV Mode to 1, the shutter is locked till the time I press the shutter button again. Example - Rail moves a step. Controller triggers the exposure. Mirror does not go up. Rail moves to the next step. Controller triggers second exposure. This trigger resets the mirror of the first exposure. Process repeats. In the end I am one exposure behind.

For the time being to overcome this issue, I have enabled the 2sec timer on my camera and increased the rest time after the exposure is taken before the rail moves to the next step.

Is this a common issue or my settings are not correct?

Thanks

Anvancy
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure that the camera image review time (seen after the shot on the rear LCD screen) is "off". If for some reason you need a review, you will have to set the WeMacro controller to provide 2 releases with each step. One to take the picture, and a second, after a desired delay, to take the camera out of "review mode" and back to shooting ready.

There should be no mirror movement at all during stack acquisition with that camera
.
1) In menu, set live view to Mode 1 or 2

2) In menu, turn off image review (or else program for two releases each step)

3) Be sure the camera has been placed into "live view" before starting to acquire the stack.
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anvancy



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 351
Location: India

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles Krebs wrote:
Be sure that the camera image review time (seen after the shot on the rear LCD screen) is "off". If for some reason you need a review, you will have to set the WeMacro controller to provide 2 releases with each step. One to take the picture, and a second, after a desired delay, to take the camera out of "review mode" and back to shooting ready.

There should be no mirror movement at all during stack acquisition with that camera
.
1) In menu, set live view to Mode 1 or 2

2) In menu, turn off image review (or else program for two releases each step)

3) Be sure the camera has been placed into "live view" before starting to acquire the stack.


Thanks for the reply Charles. I went through your EFSC article and it provided much needed knowledge. I have some questions pertaining to your reply.

1. Is it because the image review is set to "ON" the camera locks itself thinking the first exposure is not complete?

2.Going by your suggestion, I can do test shutters through wemacro to review my composition and then turn off image review for the actual stack to save time on the wemacro instead to choosing two triggers through the wemacro.

3. For your third point, till now my EFSC mode was set to Mode 1 and mirror lockup to on but I didnt turn on the real live view to begin the stack. Is there a difference between turning on mirror lockup vs actually turning the live view on? The battery will drain much faster than non live view correct?
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on your third question it does sound like there is some confusion as to what the various settings do.

If you have image review set to "on", the camera will need another partial shutter press to return to "ready-to shoot" if the last image taken is still displayed on the LCD. (If the set "review time" is very short, and it "times-out" and turns off before the WeMacro sends the next shutter signal you will have no problem.) But if the WeMacro sends the next release signal while the image is still displayed on the rear LCD, it will not trip the camera shutter but simply stop the LCD review, and the camera goes back to "ready-to-shoot". You will then have missed the shot because the camera will not trip until the following release signal. You will continue to miss every other shot.

I realize that when setting up you want to do test shots. So there are a couple of ways I find it convenient to work. One is to turn "off" image review in the camera menu and become very familiar with the review button on the back of the camera. Use that for the test and set-up shots and then when you run the actual stack there is no problem. The other is to set a short image review time, maybe something like 2 seconds. Then when you set up the different timing parameters in the WeMacro control program just be sure that you allow enough time for the LCD review to "time-out" and the camera return to "ready-to-shoot". In the Wemacro control program you want the sum of "Shutter waiting time"+"Interval of shutter" to be just a little longer than the sum of your your image review time plus your actual shutter speed. That way, after a shot is taken you will get a brief review that will "time-out" before the next shutter signal is sent. (I'll often work this way to monitor the progress of a stack with subjects that might move or "sag".)

Important.... I believe that you are using continuous light. If you will be using non-Canon flash then you would use a different procedure than what follows below.

You want to use the electronic first shutter curtain with live view to get the most vibration free image possible with your camera. With Canon "xxD" series cameras (40D, 50D, 60D, 70D, 80D) and higher models you must set the menu "live view" setting to either Mode 1 or Mode 2, to "tell" the camera to use the EFSC.. otherwise it will not. You always want to take the shots with "live view" on, in which case the mirror is already "up". So it does not matter at all what the "mirror-lockup" setting is on the camera. It has no effect or purpose when you are in "live view" mode. (With the xxD series canons and higher models the mirror will not cycle at all while in the "live view" mode unless you are using certain types of "auto-focus " )

The battery will drain faster when you are in live view. Have a spare always on charge, and you should be OK. Better yet, get an AC adapter for this type of usage.
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anvancy



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Charles. It makes sense now.

Will follow the image review off method.
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lonepal



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does not the EFSC also Works with silent shoot mode?

I remember so.
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rjlittlefield
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anvancy wrote:
Thanks Charles. It makes sense now.

To clarify a couple of points that I have seen people be confused about...

1. The purpose of EFSC is to avoid vibration from the mechanical shutter opening. Shutter vibration is much less than mirror vibration, but it is still significant. Mirror lockup eliminates only about 2/3 of the total vibration. With EFSC, the mirror is up and the mechanical shutter is open for a long time before the exposure starts.

2. EFSC does not eliminate all vibration issues because the exposure is still ended by mechanical shutter closing. Many of us were surprised to learn that there is a critical range of exposure times, roughly 1/200 second and faster, in which the image can be significantly blurred by motion caused by the shutter closing. The most interesting case is when the mechanical shutter starts to close on one edge of the picture just at the time that the electronic shutter finishes opening on the opposite edge. In that case, one side of the image is exposed entirely during motion-free time, while the opposite of the image is exposed entirely during shutter-closing time. The result is an image that is progressively more blurred from one edge to the other. The effect was very confusing until we finally figured out what was causing it.

--Rik
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Charles Krebs



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonepal wrote:
Does not the EFSC also Works with silent shoot mode?

I remember so.


This can get confusing and Canon makes it even more confusing with the way they have named these features.

Some Canon cameras have drive modes that offer "Silent Single Shooting" and "Silent Continuous Shooting". These are not the same as in the live-view menu settings where you can choose "Silent LV shooting" and can set it to "Mode 1", "Mode 2", or "Disable". "Mode 1" and "Mode 2" are the only settings on these models that will use EFSC.

"Silent Single Shooting " and "Silent Continuous Shooting" are drive settings that can be used when the camera is not in live-view and the camera is being used in a traditional SLR manner... mirror up/shutter opens/shutter closes/mirror drops down. What these settings do is slow down the mirrors movement and slow down the shutter re-cocking. This reduces picture taking noise levels by about half of normal operation, but is is definitely not silent! (This also causes a slightly longer delay until the shutter opens after hitting the release, and limits the continuous drive speed obtained.) It does not use EFSC in these drive modes.
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