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High-Resolution Line Scan Lenses - Comparison of results
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Sager



Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of more interest for coin photography could be the 0.7/1.4X 95mm f2.7 Myutron - there seems to a small stock of them on eBay right now (however not a cheap lens)- With the current used stock it's not quite as one-off as some of the other lenses under discussion.

That said, the MacroVaron is proving hard to beat! I'll need to compare results from the Myutron and the MVN when I get a better adapter for the Myutron. Size wise it's like david and goliath between the two lenses.
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Sager



Joined: 09 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how to effectively show quality in a post so I'll link to my drop box for a full res tiff (290MB) of a recent MacroVaron test so anyone interested can pixel peep.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vfhs9bqwy4fnut/85MVN_09X_2017-06-13-21.24.47%20ZS%20PMax%20UDR_PSedit.tif?dl=0

Posted with the intent to show the resolution/sharpness falloff at the edges of the subject as the stack starts to get deeper in focus. I like the effect as I think it lends some depth to the image and focuses your eye on the foreground detail. My intent is large scale prints... this level of detail is lost at web resolutions of course.

Another course of action could be to stop the lens down at the end of the stack and loose quality to diffraction. I know some macro photographers stop the lens down at the end of a stack for a more gradual falloff in resolution and to extend the focus (especially when shooting by rail).

Any other ideas or techniques people use in focus stacking for more subjective results?

I'd like to create deep stacks and have more control over the final image especially as the stack recedes in the background. Basically to simulate full scale photography depth of field effects and the diminishing contrast atmosphere creates in landscape photography.

Also, I'm wondering if there might be stacking software hacks or software techniques that could be employed.

File is a 16bit tiff (sparsely edited in PS) 0.9X stack (zerene) of around 270 images shot via the "by sensor" method on a PhaseOne IQ150 at a 1 second exposure and ISO100. I've pushed the dark areas a little too far so they are beginning to get grainy. More time spent on lighting the subject would have helped.

Subject is a piece of slag glass with the appearance of an iceberg or crystal.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would not be too hard to write a program to reduce contrast and saturation and sharpness, and perhaps add a slight blue shift, in proportion to z-depth in a set of stacking photos, to mimic atmospheric perspective.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sager wrote:
Of more interest for coin photography could be the 0.7/1.4X 95mm f2.7 Myutron - there seems to a small stock of them on eBay right now (however not a cheap lens)- With the current used stock it's not quite as one-off as some of the other lenses under discussion.

That said, the MacroVaron is proving hard to beat! I'll need to compare results from the Myutron and the MVN when I get a better adapter for the Myutron. Size wise it's like david and goliath between the two lenses.


I'll be very interested in the results on the Myutron SP07. Turns out most of my work on APS-C is done at M=0.7x...
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Sager



Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Ray I'll post some results at 0.7X soon, I need to drop off a recessed lens board to get machined with M72 threads in order to be able to get the lens close enough for 0.7X.

@Lou, good idea- that's probably a great route especially if I script the raw to tiff conversion in Capture One. Can't be too difficult with Apple script??? I'll hit one of my programmer friends for advice and see if Phase One or Digital Transitions (makers of a special archival edition of Capture One that supports more scripting as well as being my PhaseOne dealer) will support me in the effort.

Another trick I forgot to mention that I've tried a few times is making a depth map in Zerene and bring it in to Photoshop as a mask. It's subtle but I used a depth map when I was editing this image which was shot around 0.9X with a 105 printing-nikkor: http://jonathansager.com/Landscape-VIII
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really interesting "landscape" work Jonathan. Lighting must be very critical to get this look.
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nathanm



Joined: 02 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just posted on the Rayfact MJ90mm in a thread of its own
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Sager



Joined: 09 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proper M72 adapters for the Xenon-Sapphire and Myutron are getting machined this weekend...
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got one of those eBay Myutron 1.4x lenses. It will be some months before I can go to the US to retrieve it though.
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Sager



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Lou, I've been so busy I haven't machined a proper adapter for mine... So by the time you pick up yours, I will probably have my adapter complete. We'll have to compare notes then!
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is going to be good. Faster aperture than the Macro Varon. Although I really wish it had been the 2x version rather than 1.4x version (actually what I got was the the 0.7x but reversed it will give me 1.4x) since now I have found I can get acceptable results at 1.4x with the PN105A +TC14E-III.
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Sager



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lou, Did you get the Myutron working? What do you think?

I finished machining adapters for the Myutron and Xenon-Sapphire last weekend and made a few quick tests. The Myutron didn't grab my attention as quickly as the Xenon-Sapphire did so I am probably a bit biased at the moment.

The Xenon-Sapphire is incredible, I'm loving the lens so far. It has Printing-Nikkor like sharpness & contrast at a lower magnifications than I can go on 1X 105mm PN. Subjectively testing the lens I'm happy with the results from 0.25X - 0.5X. Unfortunately on a Phase XF camera the rear barrel of the lens gets close to lens flange on the camera body at 0.25X so I can't test beyond this but I assume it would still capture sharp images beyond 0.25X on a camera body with a shorter FFD. It would probably be incredible on the PhaseOne 100MP digital back with ES.

I'm going to talk to SK about the higher magnification Xenon-Sapphires. I'm very interested in the 0.8X & 1.1X versions...

RE: 0.7X/1.4X Myutron, I definitely need more time to explore this lens. I didn't get good results with a quick setup. Could it be that quality on the Myutron falls off quickly outside of it's intended magnification? This is just an initial reaction, I'm wondering if I've just been too flippant with my quick testing of the Myutron (over excited by the XS). I'll dive in deeper soon but wanted to see if anyone else has given the Myutron a shot.

Best,
Jonathan
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for getting back to this. I am sad to hear the Myutron didn't blow you away. I still haven't had a chance to go back to the US to pick it up.

I often need to do black and white macro photography of mostly-white subjects, and this has gotten me interested in some exotic lenses tuned to single wavelengths...those are waiting for me in the US as well, and I'll report on them when I test them.
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Sager



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lou, Don't fret yet- Like I said my results could be biased and in no way based on thorough testing... I need to set up a proper test and will report back.

What lenses are you testing that are optimized for single wave-length? S-Planars? Ultra-Micro-Nikkors?

I'm thinking through what it will take to test my 155mm Ultra-Micro-Nikkor optimized for 546 nm (e-line) light on a 100MP achromatic back from Phase One. In theory the achromatic back (with no bayer processing) might be able to take advantage of the 200-300 lp/mm the UMN is capable of resolving over a 56-80mm image circle.

I'm wondering what road to go down: filtering or tuning the actual light source OR just filtering the light entering the lens (ie. bandpass filter) and using a broader band light source that I know has some intensity at the desired wavelength.

For the UMN I was looking at a 546nm bandpass optical filters on Edmunds... I haven't really researched or wrapped my head around what the correct testing procedure for these lenses would be... This lens is particularly easy as 546nm is in the visible spectrum unlike some of the shorter wavelength photolithography lenses out there...

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm excited to hear that someone with a big sensor is experimenting with these! That's what these lenses really deserve. They are basically 10x or 5x microscope objectives with high NA (up to 0.30) and perfect sharp image circles 125mm + in diameter! That's exciting.

I think since this is macro work, we'll be putting the light source quite close to the subject, so maybe we can make do with lower intensity monochromatic LEDs. I'd be reluctant to put any filter between the lens and the subject; these lenses aren't expecting any glass in their pathway. But a filter put on the light might be ok.

But these triumphs of optical engineering cost almost nothing. I bought some S-planars and a 248nm 5x lens from Tamarack Scientific. The latter weighs 20 pounds!!!!! Most people seem to end up using these as door-stops, but at least this will make a GOOD door-stop.

I'll be using mine on an MFT camera, and I am looking to convert one to monochrome. I'd stack and stitch by just moving the camera, keeping lens and subject fixed, photographing the virtual image piece by piece. The S-planar lenses (and probably the others too) are telecentric, which facilitates this.

I should add that I am also looking for good monochromatic light sources. My lenses are 248nm and 436nm.
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