I am considering a Sony Alpha 7R II for my Olympus BX-51. Today I am using a Canon 6D (Full frame) but vibration is a problem. I want something that vibrates less. Even in silent mode it suffers from vibration which can clearly be seen when you hit the trigger.
I want to hear from you that have experience from the Sony. What are your reflections and experiences?
Vibration?
Vignetting?
Glare?
The second option I have is to go for the new Canon 5D MK IV, but I do not know if it performs better than the 6D from a vibration perspective.
Anything else worth considering when selecting between the Sony or Canon?
Sony Alpha 7R II / Canon 5D MK IV for micro- Experiences?
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
No experience with FF (well, just a little with 6D that worked fine for me although Waldo posted vibration issues in water immersed samples with high mag water objective)
AFAIK (from readings) the Alpha 7R II has a better sensor and the Canons better computer tetheringAnything else worth considering when selecting between the Sony or Canon?
Pau
I'm using a sony a6000 (aps sensor) but have no experience with canon cameras.
Sony has efcs which seems to work fine for speeds lower than 1/250.I have'nt noticed any vibration problems.
Olympus objectives can't cover full frame sensors.I will suggest to use an aps camera.Alternatively you can use a sony teleconverter to fill a full frame sensor.(This of course means extra money and extra weight).Also be aware that sony aps (24mp A6XXX) have higher pixel density even from a7rii 42mp sensor.This may be usefull in lower magnifications.
Sony cameras are also famous for their video quality.What i don't like about A6000 is the battery life and the fact that the sensor is easily getting dirty (if you often change lenses) due to no effective sensor cleaning mechanism.Olympus is light years in this area.
Sony has efcs which seems to work fine for speeds lower than 1/250.I have'nt noticed any vibration problems.
Olympus objectives can't cover full frame sensors.I will suggest to use an aps camera.Alternatively you can use a sony teleconverter to fill a full frame sensor.(This of course means extra money and extra weight).Also be aware that sony aps (24mp A6XXX) have higher pixel density even from a7rii 42mp sensor.This may be usefull in lower magnifications.
Sony cameras are also famous for their video quality.What i don't like about A6000 is the battery life and the fact that the sensor is easily getting dirty (if you often change lenses) due to no effective sensor cleaning mechanism.Olympus is light years in this area.
Thanks Pau and harisA.
Yes, it is a serious drawback that Sony seems to have limited control via the tethering software. Canon is very strong there. Olympus objectives will for sure fill a full frame sensor on the Canon 6D. I get no vignetting what so ever with a 2.5X photo eyepiece. What I will get with the Sony, I do not know...
Poor sensor cleaning seems like a pain. Battery life is not an issue for me as I always run the camera through a power adapter.
Yes, it is a serious drawback that Sony seems to have limited control via the tethering software. Canon is very strong there. Olympus objectives will for sure fill a full frame sensor on the Canon 6D. I get no vignetting what so ever with a 2.5X photo eyepiece. What I will get with the Sony, I do not know...
Poor sensor cleaning seems like a pain. Battery life is not an issue for me as I always run the camera through a power adapter.
yOUR photo eyepiece expands the objective's image so it can fill the full frame sensor of your camera.Olympus objectives have a image circle of 22mm or 26.5mm depending on type.hkv wrote: Olympus objectives will for sure fill a full frame sensor on the Canon 6D. I get no vignetting what so ever with a 2.5X photo eyepiece. What I will get with the Sony, I do not know...
Your setup will be ok for sony FF but you probably need to re position SONY (in respect with canon)due to different flange distances.
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austrokiwi1
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:53 am
I am a A7rII owner, but I have no experience with Canon. The only canon I own(I use it) is a 7s. You asked about:
In regards to Vibration, the Sony performs extremely well. It has an Electronic Front Curtain shutter( sorry if I have the words round the wrong way) and a fully electronic shutter mode( which is a Video scan). Its predecessor the A7r was useless in this area.
As for the other two they are really lens issues not Camera issues. The Sony has a Back Illuminated sensor, and so is significantly different to the sensor offerings from canon, so a comparison would not be fair. When the first FF E-mount cameras came out there was excitement from those who wanted to resurrect their Range finder lenses. It was found that the micro lenses on the periphery of the Sensor were reflecting light away due to the shallow angle of incidence at the edges of the sensor( when using range finder lenses) resulting in strong vignetting. Some ( myself included) had hoped the back illuminated sensor on the A7rII would correct that issue... and some report that it has. I only have have one range finder lens ( the canon 50mm F 0.95) and there is noticeable vignetting with that lens on the A7rII, but I see some of the same vignetting( although reduced) with the pictures produced by the canon 7S so I think it is an issue with the lens I have. To be safe I would suggest that range finder lenses are not ideal for the Sony. With more modern FF lenses I have not heard of any problems with vignetting.
I have some cheap microscope objectives( finite) and haven't had any issues with Vignetting when using them.
On glare with modem lenses I have not experienced any issues ( I have with the Range finder lens). I haven't noticed it my self but I understand there may be an issue when using medium format lenses on the Sony. However that issue probably applies to all mirror-less cameras and lenses that cast image circles significantly larger than the sensor. The issue is reflection within the camera body due to the"searchlight" nature of the medium format lenses. I use the Mamiya 645 120mm F4 macro and the 35mm F3.5 and have not noticed this issue at all. I also have not heard of any one experiencing it so for now I believe it is a theorized problem rather than a real issue.
The A7rII can be tethered but, as far as I know, there is only one program that allows this: Capture 10 pro, that software is a full raw photo editing program produced by Phase one for use with their medium format cameras and digital backs. The full program is expensive but there is a cheaper version "Capture 10 pro for Sony". One point to note the Ram requirements of this software are such that you need a 64bit operating system
I do use my Sony tethered but the huge frustration is the laptops resolution is not as good as the cameras resolution. So when using Zebra and focus peaking I always focus using the camera not the image on the lap top. A computer with a 4K monitor would likely fix this issue. That leads to three significant features of the Sony: Focus peaking, Zebra and manual focus assist. Focus peaking highlights what is in focus. When using manual focus I have this feature turned on. When taking high magnification macro shots( up to 10X) I rely on focus peaking.
I find Zebra is much more intuitive to use than the histogram for me it is a much more natural form of visual feedback. Manual focus assist works with all lenses (adapted or native) when manual focusing you can use up to 14X zoom to ensure you have critical focus.
IF you are a regular Canon user you would find one definite annoyance with the Sony. The Sony's menus system is complicated....I get around it by setting the function buttons on the camera to operate my most used menu items.
I know your aim is to use the camera with a microscope, I have no significant experience in that area,( hence my answers cover more generic issues). I do have a question, Why the Sony A7rII ? the A7rII is an extremely versatile but expensive camera. to me it seems overkill to purchase one for use on a microscope. Unless you really need to have the FF FOV, I would have thought some of the micro four thirds Cameras might well be a better option.
Vibration?
Vignetting?
Glare?
In regards to Vibration, the Sony performs extremely well. It has an Electronic Front Curtain shutter( sorry if I have the words round the wrong way) and a fully electronic shutter mode( which is a Video scan). Its predecessor the A7r was useless in this area.
As for the other two they are really lens issues not Camera issues. The Sony has a Back Illuminated sensor, and so is significantly different to the sensor offerings from canon, so a comparison would not be fair. When the first FF E-mount cameras came out there was excitement from those who wanted to resurrect their Range finder lenses. It was found that the micro lenses on the periphery of the Sensor were reflecting light away due to the shallow angle of incidence at the edges of the sensor( when using range finder lenses) resulting in strong vignetting. Some ( myself included) had hoped the back illuminated sensor on the A7rII would correct that issue... and some report that it has. I only have have one range finder lens ( the canon 50mm F 0.95) and there is noticeable vignetting with that lens on the A7rII, but I see some of the same vignetting( although reduced) with the pictures produced by the canon 7S so I think it is an issue with the lens I have. To be safe I would suggest that range finder lenses are not ideal for the Sony. With more modern FF lenses I have not heard of any problems with vignetting.
I have some cheap microscope objectives( finite) and haven't had any issues with Vignetting when using them.
On glare with modem lenses I have not experienced any issues ( I have with the Range finder lens). I haven't noticed it my self but I understand there may be an issue when using medium format lenses on the Sony. However that issue probably applies to all mirror-less cameras and lenses that cast image circles significantly larger than the sensor. The issue is reflection within the camera body due to the"searchlight" nature of the medium format lenses. I use the Mamiya 645 120mm F4 macro and the 35mm F3.5 and have not noticed this issue at all. I also have not heard of any one experiencing it so for now I believe it is a theorized problem rather than a real issue.
The A7rII can be tethered but, as far as I know, there is only one program that allows this: Capture 10 pro, that software is a full raw photo editing program produced by Phase one for use with their medium format cameras and digital backs. The full program is expensive but there is a cheaper version "Capture 10 pro for Sony". One point to note the Ram requirements of this software are such that you need a 64bit operating system
I do use my Sony tethered but the huge frustration is the laptops resolution is not as good as the cameras resolution. So when using Zebra and focus peaking I always focus using the camera not the image on the lap top. A computer with a 4K monitor would likely fix this issue. That leads to three significant features of the Sony: Focus peaking, Zebra and manual focus assist. Focus peaking highlights what is in focus. When using manual focus I have this feature turned on. When taking high magnification macro shots( up to 10X) I rely on focus peaking.
I find Zebra is much more intuitive to use than the histogram for me it is a much more natural form of visual feedback. Manual focus assist works with all lenses (adapted or native) when manual focusing you can use up to 14X zoom to ensure you have critical focus.
IF you are a regular Canon user you would find one definite annoyance with the Sony. The Sony's menus system is complicated....I get around it by setting the function buttons on the camera to operate my most used menu items.
I know your aim is to use the camera with a microscope, I have no significant experience in that area,( hence my answers cover more generic issues). I do have a question, Why the Sony A7rII ? the A7rII is an extremely versatile but expensive camera. to me it seems overkill to purchase one for use on a microscope. Unless you really need to have the FF FOV, I would have thought some of the micro four thirds Cameras might well be a better option.
Still learning,
Cameras' Sony A7rII, OLympus OMD-EM10II
Macro lenses: Printing nikkor 105mm, Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G, Schneider Kreuznach Makro Iris 50mm , 2.8, Schnieder Kreuznach APO Componon HM 40mm F2.8 , Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro ( used with mirex tilt shift adapter), Olympus 135mm 4.5 bellows lens, Oly 80mm bellows lens, Olympus 60mm F2.8
Cameras' Sony A7rII, OLympus OMD-EM10II
Macro lenses: Printing nikkor 105mm, Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G, Schneider Kreuznach Makro Iris 50mm , 2.8, Schnieder Kreuznach APO Componon HM 40mm F2.8 , Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro ( used with mirex tilt shift adapter), Olympus 135mm 4.5 bellows lens, Oly 80mm bellows lens, Olympus 60mm F2.8
Thanks austrokiwi1 for you reply! Great information!
Regarding you question on "why sony". I prefer a full format sensor. The dynamic range is better and overall has higher performance on ISO, low light sensitivity etc. Except for price, I see no reason to go for a lower performing system. I also want 4K video recording to be able to stack from extracted JPGs and still have a decent resolution of the source images.
The limited tethering capability will probably be the biggest show stopper. If I cannot remotely control the most important features from the Mac, then it will be useless. Also, parfocality is very important. I need to be able to adjust the parfocality so that when I have perfect focus in the eye pieces, I also have perfect focus on film. This can be done VERY precisely with the canon setup. Of course it needs to be adjusted for each persons eyes, so if the "operator" changes, the parfocality adjustment needs to be fine tuned.
Regarding you question on "why sony". I prefer a full format sensor. The dynamic range is better and overall has higher performance on ISO, low light sensitivity etc. Except for price, I see no reason to go for a lower performing system. I also want 4K video recording to be able to stack from extracted JPGs and still have a decent resolution of the source images.
The limited tethering capability will probably be the biggest show stopper. If I cannot remotely control the most important features from the Mac, then it will be useless. Also, parfocality is very important. I need to be able to adjust the parfocality so that when I have perfect focus in the eye pieces, I also have perfect focus on film. This can be done VERY precisely with the canon setup. Of course it needs to be adjusted for each persons eyes, so if the "operator" changes, the parfocality adjustment needs to be fine tuned.
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austrokiwi1
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:53 am
.hkv wrote: ................................... I prefer a full format sensor. The dynamic range is better and overall has higher performance on ISO, low light sensitivity etc. Except for price, I see no reason to go for a lower performing system. I also want 4K video recording to be able to stack from extracted JPGs and still have a decent resolution of the source images.
The limited tethering capability will probably be the biggest show stopper. If I cannot remotely control the most important features from the Mac, then it will be useless. Also, parfocality is very important. I need to be able to adjust the parfocality so that when I have perfect focus in the eye pieces, I also have perfect focus on film. This can be done VERY precisely with the canon setup. Of course it needs to be adjusted for each persons eyes, so if the "operator" changes, the parfocality adjustment needs to be fine tuned.
With The Sony You will get very good dynamic range . The reviews I have read, and it is quite possible they were biased, suggest the sony is much better than the 5DSr in terms of dynamic range .
The Sony is an extremely versatile tool, however noting your need for tethering as well as your ability and your familiarity with Canon I would caution you against the A7rII. It may be a better option in a few years( Sony has already taken the steps towards developing a more user friendly menu). From what I have heard canon users find the Sony menu system diabolical and highly frustrating. I have been a regular Sony user for a considerable time now and at times my reaction to the menus sees my voicing expletives at the Sony Designers!!
In the final analysis I think the foundation for creating great shots is enjoying the process. I would fear you would find the Sony unpleasant to adapt to. The same would apply to the A99ii( I believe it has the same sensor as the A7rii). I like many people thought Sony had abandoned their A mount line and was surprised when this camera was released. However given the gear that I anticipate you already have and despite the reportedly better menu system, I think the transfer to that camera would be even more problematic. If you are still tempted to look at the A7rII I would suggest you see if you can rent one for a week with just an ordinary 55 mm lens. Play with it just to see how it handles and the adaptation challenges you may face.
Still learning,
Cameras' Sony A7rII, OLympus OMD-EM10II
Macro lenses: Printing nikkor 105mm, Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G, Schneider Kreuznach Makro Iris 50mm , 2.8, Schnieder Kreuznach APO Componon HM 40mm F2.8 , Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro ( used with mirex tilt shift adapter), Olympus 135mm 4.5 bellows lens, Oly 80mm bellows lens, Olympus 60mm F2.8
Cameras' Sony A7rII, OLympus OMD-EM10II
Macro lenses: Printing nikkor 105mm, Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G, Schneider Kreuznach Makro Iris 50mm , 2.8, Schnieder Kreuznach APO Componon HM 40mm F2.8 , Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro ( used with mirex tilt shift adapter), Olympus 135mm 4.5 bellows lens, Oly 80mm bellows lens, Olympus 60mm F2.8
Parfocality will not be an issue with the Sony if it is not already with your 6D, there are adapters meant to use Canon EF lenses with the Sony that will make an easy adaptation and will maintain the parfocality.
For me, good tethering, not only of the live image but of main camera controls including electronic flash is really a need. I remember using my old 20D untethered and I never would want to return back. There is a general thought that the A7RII has the state of art sensor for now but the 5D IV one seems much improved both in DR and noise over former models.
In your shoes (maybe in few months...) the key for the decision would be the vibration or lack of it in the 5D IV
When I think upgrading my camera I tend to remember that Charles Krebs uses one not better than my 7D (in fact from lower series)...
For me, good tethering, not only of the live image but of main camera controls including electronic flash is really a need. I remember using my old 20D untethered and I never would want to return back. There is a general thought that the A7RII has the state of art sensor for now but the 5D IV one seems much improved both in DR and noise over former models.
In your shoes (maybe in few months...) the key for the decision would be the vibration or lack of it in the 5D IV
When I think upgrading my camera I tend to remember that Charles Krebs uses one not better than my 7D (in fact from lower series)...
Pau
Yes, and second criteria, how well tethering works.Pau wrote: In your shoes (maybe in few months...) the key for the decision would be the vibration or lack of it in the 5D IV
When I think upgrading my camera I tend to remember that Charles Krebs uses one not better than my 7D (in fact from lower series)...
Agree, Charles has skills I do not have. While learning, all we can do is to try to compensate lack of skills with better technology.
