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Methylsulfonal Wunderworld
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Ernst Hippe



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:55 am    Post subject: Methylsulfonal Wunderworld Reply with quote

Hello,
M. = Trional was mentioned already by Agatha Christie as a sleeping drug. Ist crystals serve here better against the northern November Gray:



Ernst
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5762
Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderful image!
Can you tell us a little about the lighting?
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Sumguy01



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 902
Location: Ketchikan Alaska USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice.
Love the colors.
Thanks for sharing.
Very Happy
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RogelioMoreno



Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 2953
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful image.

Rogelio
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Ernst Hippe



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,
thanks for your appreciation!

Charles:
Olympus CH-2 critical brightfield plus selfmade LED holder with possible shifting sidewards. Polarizator and retarder (Mica 1230nm) separately turnible for a wide color range. Achromat 6,3x.

Greetings Ernst
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NicoVB



Joined: 11 Jul 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow great colors!

Would you care about a bit more explanation working with retarder filters?
It's unknown to me.
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Ernst Hippe



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello NicoVB,
additionally to my answer to Charles Krebs:
The retarder filter sits on a round glass plate between polarizer and condenser, turnible independely from the polarizer. It can be stacked of 2 to 3 layers of colorless clear plastic tape. However you must reach the order II or III of the pol-colors-scale. A still better material is a thin mica plate, which I was lucky to get. Those with such high values are not offered commercially, so one can only do try and error with tape. But I also used this method.
Polarizer and object must also be turnible separately to get the full color range.
I hope you can work with my explanation and wish you good results!

Greetings Ernst
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NicoVB



Joined: 11 Jul 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tested this with adding layers of 3M clear scotch tape on a 700x700 slide and holding it between my lineair filter and condensor.
Changing the specimen, the results vary off course.

I don't receive the result you get (that nice black background with rainbow colors in the crystals), but more like an equal color spreading and replacing the black background with a color.
Depending by the way the lineair filter is turned 90°, another color appears.

Best results are with 1, 2 or 3 layers of tape.
I think that is logical, (adding around 1/4 wave filter each time) the results just cycle.
But the more layers added, tht more the effect diminishes and colors fade away.
Like you said, add 1,2 or 3 layers...

Resulting main colors:
1 layer: yellow/blue
2 layers: red/blue green
3 layers: Purple/yellow-green
----------------------------------------------
4 layers: Pink/green
5 layers: slight transparent Pink/green
6 layers: more transparent Pink/green

To finish i made 2 slides, one with a single layer, the other with 2 layers of tape.
Is it correct to presume these function now as a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave retarder filter?
And now i can combine them and rotate them independently the way it's pleased.
Some trippy colors appear!!

More testing is needed, but i still are puzzled how you manage to keep that black background.
Some post processing maybe? No offence if so, just wondering. Great effect.
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Last edited by NicoVB on Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ernst Hippe



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No post processing, apart from a bit of more contrast sometimes. I needed some years to get the results today...
Your are now on the right way - keep on experimenting, also with all kinds of plastic foils for retarders!
Ernst
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carlos.uruguay



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 4750
Location: Uruguay - Montevideo - America del Sur

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super!!
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NicoVB



Joined: 11 Jul 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danke Ernst.
It is wonderful to see all kinds of material that surround us, have functions i never would have thought... Wink
Also understandable that you don't want to share your years of research in a hartbeat.
I'll keep experimenting.
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Ernst Hippe



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not that I don'want, but it could become a long lecture about polarization...
I recommend to look for the "Michel-Levy chart of pol. colors". Stack an exact parallel staircase of a sticking tape to compare the color sequence with Levy.
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Cactusdave



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1523
Location: Bromley, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ernest's advice is all good. I'd offer a few other suggestions. Producing nice polarisation colours in any suitably birefringent specimen is always going to be a matter of trial and error. It's dependent on the optical properties of the specimen and its thickness, so some, maybe even a lot of trying different combinations of retarders may be needed to get something really pleasing to you. I keep a big stock of potential retarders, CD wrappers, greetings card wrappers, small cellophane packets, the plastic 'windows' of supermarket cake boxes are all worth trying. Sellotape is good, I find stacks of two and three layers most useful. Not all Sellotape is the same, just try it. Stacking retarders often gives the most vibrant colour. I frequently use a commercial full wave red/magenta retarder with a Sellotape or other type of retarder stacked on top. This is particularly useful if you want a nice sky blue background. This guy's polystyrene retarders give particularly strong colours in my setup http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172392990381?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I don't know if he would sell them without the rest of his kit. To my eye it's a bit garish for biological subjects, but might be great for crystals. Finally a thought on getting a black background. Dark ground works quite well with polarisation and a retarder and can give very striking results at low power, say up to a X10 objective. Wink
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NicoVB



Joined: 11 Jul 2016
Posts: 145
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave, thx for the tip.

I already was on the point to buy this one, but instead i bought myself some good or better quality linear filter.
I bought 2 different sets, a linear 0/90 of 0.4mm and a lineai 45/135 of 0.8mm.
The angle is not that important to me, but maybe the thickness does make a difference.
I now use a linear pol filter from some old 3d glasses, only 0.28mm.
But they don't block all the light.
That is the main reason why i can't get a nice black background.
So I'm going to solve that first.

As retarders you can indeed buy Pro Redarder Flim of ?/4 (nm 450 - 700), ?/2 (nm560) or ?/1 (nm 560) for a decent price, depending on the size.
Glass ones are just too expensive for now.
But i like it more to explore all what's around in a normal household. Things you have but don't expect what their behavior is like until you hold them in between your polarizer set.
Much more fun to grab a packaging blister, cut out the flat part and see your wife thinking: "what the **** is he going to do with that?".
Some things work, others don't, but the trial and error is what makes this interesting.
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NicoVB



Joined: 11 Jul 2016
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Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ernst Hippe wrote:

I recommend to look for the "Michel-Levy chart of pol. colors". Stack an exact parallel staircase of a sticking tape to compare the color sequence with Levy.

That is exactly what i wanted to describe when finding out that adding more layers after a point has no more use...
Thank you for pointing in the right direction and correct scientific name.


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