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DIY Scienscope fiberoptic light
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pharamousse



Joined: 21 Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Location: PARIS

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I'll do some test to see how it behave.
Next step will be to provide a global power for all my setup, I'm thinking about my 2
Yongnuo YN-560 IV flash Speedlite, I saw a topic, I think it's not a big deal.
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pharamousse wrote:
... I'm thinking about my 2 Yongnuo YN-560 IV flash Speedlite ...


BTW, for speedlights I'm using 6v 30A power supply
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Saul
Studio, horizontal and field setups
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pharamousse



Joined: 21 Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Location: PARIS

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for the yongnuo twins, I need 6v 3A.
30A ? Maybe i got to make some research.
This video on YouTube can be a beginning for basics in powering speedlights
https://youtu.be/I_5HbVyeQqE
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pharamousse wrote:
I think for the yongnuo twins, I need 6v 3A.
30A ? Maybe i got to make some research.
This video on YouTube can be a beginning for basics in powering speedlights
https://youtu.be/I_5HbVyeQqE


Before had 5v 4a - it was slow for 2 or 3 Nikon SB-27 (depending on the speedlight power settings). Biggest problem is initial current jump. Power supplys on ebay are cheap, it is better to spend few $ more (only) than to be limited during the stacking process - now I can connect all 3 SB-27, ring speedlight at full power, nothing is screaming, heating, overloading, slowing etc. ... Smile

Regarding video - it is little bit too brutal for me Smile
I use dummy batteries, with power supply for studio and batteries outdoors. Before I used sealed acid 6v 7.4A battery (lasted forever), now, when 18650 became cheap - 2x 18650 in series with converter to 6v
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Saul
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1254
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned before, had an idea to use two separate single FO guides with twee Cree XHP LEDS instead Y type and single LED . Benefit - double light output and possibility to use one or two guides without wasting half of the light output.

Old Y type on the left, new single - at the right













Single - at the left, Y type - at the right

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iconoclastica



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 63
Location: Wageningen, Gelderland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion rekindled in another thread:

Saul wrote:
iconoclastica wrote:
ChrisR wrote:
I query the choice of a gooseneck light source. I appreciate that it's something you have and it works, but designing from scratch, isn't an LED more attractive?

I have been experimenting with that. In a defunct cold light source with two goosenex, I placed a motor cycle headlight (LED, 20W) and a collector lens. It was not nearly bright enough. Used with an m-plan 60x I had to expose 8 sec and still had a dark picture. Through the eye glasses I could see hardly anything.


You have to place the LED close to the FO entrance ( I suspect you used big size LED also - it should be smaller, with smaller angle of the emission).
My experience with the Scienscope fiber optic light
No problem at 50x (do not own 60x)


I got back to my design that by parallel evolution came to a very similar result as the one discussed here: I removed the original lamp and the power supply, and replaced it by a motor cycle headlight (20W, 4 LEDs behind an acrylic disc with 4 lenses, one in front of each LED) and a surplus laptop power supply. The original potmeter I replaced by a switching frequency PWM LED dimmer.

The lamp was placed about 8 cm from the OF entry port and between them I had placed a concave convex lens scavanged from an old 50mm photographic lens.

In this setup, the brightest of the two goosenecks gave me 29500 lux. When I removed the lens, only 10700 lux remained. From the original lamp, a 43mm round piece of glass had remained in the light path. This may or may not be an IR filter, I wouldn't know how to find this out. But the LED lamp is not running hot at all, so I removed it too and was rewarded with an output of now 13200 lux.




Moving the lamp all the way to the FO port showed an output of 1400 to 60100 lux. In this position, the exact placement of the lamp became critical. The best result I got when I placed one of the LEDs exactly against the left half of the FO port.

I would have liked to double the light output thus, but I faild to fix the lamp into a position that yielded a better result than what I started with. So far the nett reult of my tries is negative.

Then I started playing with fresnel lens cards. One against the lens (in a non-optimized position about 10cm back from the FO-port) brought the ouput back in the 20,000s, a second one on front of it popped it up to double that, and a third one in between elevated it to 70,000 lux. Given the raw output of the lamp is a little less than 200,000 lux whiche is divided over two goose necks, this would be an efficiency of about 70% ?!

To do this well, I need to find a way to fix the fresnel cards in an arbitrary position along the z-axis. Don't know yet how to do that.
The focal distance of the cards is roughly 20cm.
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea about the Fresnel cards. I hadn't heard of them before. Where did you get them?
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1254
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very useful/interesting test !
Quote:
In this setup, the brightest of the two goosenecks gave me 29500 lux.

How you are measuring it ?
Quote:
Then I started playing with fresnel lens cards.

In some post I mentioned about fly eye type fresnel lens:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-PMMA-Plastic-Solar-Compound-Eye-Fresnel-Condenser-Lens-flys-eye-Projector/172776821991?hash=item283a4d14e7:m:m56oxVLbcGj3sDGDUxDgC-g
If I understood correctly, it is useful for the uniform illumination:
https://www.nikon.com/products/microscope-solutions/lineup/polarizing/lv100npol/
https://www.nikoninstruments.com/Products/Inverted-Microscopes/Eclipse-Ti2

Because I wanted to keep my design very compact, I contacted manufacturer, asking them do they have smaller diameter lenses . They replied, that they can cut from existing ones for the same price (it means 4pcs from the 70mm diameter).

Quote:
...The focal distance of the cards is roughly 20cm..

Are these fresnel lenses credit card size ? I have couple of them, but, after playing with condenser & different lenses (and after reading Pau's and other member's tests) decided do not go this route. Now I'm pretty satisfied with my "quadruple" setup, very rarely I have to use 100% output.

Other hand, 2x flye eye fresnel lens setup for the uniform light is still on my list ( for my Optiphot modular light source ), still waiting for the parts/materials to arrive ...

Quote:
To do this well, I need to find a way to fix the fresnel cards in an arbitrary position along the z-axis. Don't know yet how to do that.

U-shaped slide-in frame with set screws, sliding in the small 8020 aluminum type extrusion along Z-axis ?

Question for Nikon Eclipse owners - any idea what is the size of the single lens (in the Nikon fly eye fresnel lens) ?

BTW, how many W your LEDs are ? Make sure that your wires are thick enough . And your power supply can supply enough current for your setup.


Last edited by Saul on Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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houstontx



Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly on a nikon 90i the "fly eye" lens is about 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter placed in the light path inside the unit, directly after the lamp house mounting. I sold the 90i unit to aidanmoore a member on the forum. Maybe he could help.
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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1254
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

houstontx wrote:
If I remember correctly on a nikon 90i the "fly eye" lens is about 1.5 to 2 inches in diameter placed in the light path inside the unit, directly after the lamp house mounting. I sold the 90i unit to aidanmoore a member on the forum. Maybe he could help.


Any idea what is the size of the single cell lens ("ommatidia") ?
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iconoclastica



Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 63
Location: Wageningen, Gelderland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several years ago I bought a couple of credit card size fresnel lenses from a cheap source at ebay, after I read that someone had used them successfully to flash monkeys high up in the tree. I have never used them for that purpose, nor pbotagraphed any monkey in a tree. They just sat at the bottom of my drawer until yesterday.

The light meter I used is a lux-meter, with the sensor hidden behind a white done, like a photographic incident light meter. Not the best thing for tiny light sources, but with the end cap of the goose neck pressed against the dome it turned out pretty consistent.

The lamp is 20W, the power supply 30W, the cable is the one that originally connected the Ps to its laptop. Also the timer is well overrated. (the first thing I learned is that you can't simply throttle this with a potmeter Embarassed )
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houstontx



Joined: 31 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lens looked just like this. It even had the solid edges like this one does. Maybe you can make a guess based off this image assuming 1.5 or 2 inches from point to point or side to side? I'll let you count the points Twisted Evil


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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 1254
Location: Naperville, IL USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

houstontx wrote:
The lens looked just like this. It even had the solid edges like this one does. Maybe you can make a guess based off this image assuming 1.5 or 2 inches from point to point or side to side? I'll let you count the points Twisted Evil


Haha, already done that Smile
If you remember - can it be approximately 2mm ? More ? Less ? I'm not looking for the exact number ....
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aidanmoore



Joined: 24 Sep 2015
Posts: 56
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Sure...I'll take a look but is it visible from the transmitted lamp port entrace of the 90i. Schematic of the 90i attached for reference.



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Saul



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Aidan !
Any idea what is the size of the single cell lens ("ommatidia") ?
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