Strange problem with a DIC setup on a Olympus BH-2

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Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

I think David's observation may be correct. From the first page of the DIC instruction manual....
http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... ctions.pdf

Image

Note that they only mention the BHS and BHT (which also has the removable nosepiece like the BHS), but not the BHTU. In the BHTU there is an additional optic in the top of the stand arm. (Likely to correct the tube length for the fixed, reversed nosepiece). This is not present in the BHS and BHT. (I may be mistaken on this, but I think this extra optic also physically prevents use of the BH2-UMA vertical illuminator on the BHTU).

One other thing I noticed...

In the picture of the "new" slider with the cover removed the adhesive appears to be rather "sloppily" applied. A few years ago I opened my slider to re-lube the screw mechanism. While I really don't remember the appearance of the adhesive, I am pretty sure I would have noticed it if it appeared as it does in your pictures (tend to be a little obsessive compulsive about such things :wink: ). It may mean absolutely nothing and the glue guy was just having a rough day... but it might mean that it has been "worked on" at some time.

Your backgrounds will almost always have some gradation in tonality, but you should not get color bands. With my Olympus the 10X is the least "even" in the background.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

What objectives are you using? It is very important (!!!) to use Olympus ones that are compatible with the Nomarski system! I don't know what ones were recommended for use with the older BH, but with the "LB series objectives" that arrived with the BH2 the ones recommended for DIC are the Olympus S Plan Achromats. (I also use the S Plan Apos and they also work well.) Others might work OK, but if you are trying to sort out problems one of the very first things you need to do is be sure you are using compatible objectives. (Once you get things working properly then you can try other objectives to see what happens).

If you are using an Olympus S Plan Achromat and have these problems I'm really suspect the "extra" glass in the BHTU. If you have some time try this with both the old and new upper sliders ...


First be sure the red dot on the BH2-NA intermediate tube is mounted on the microscope to that red dot is in line with the red dot on the microscope (as you show in your pictures).

- Using a 10X or 20X, find a very small subject (like a speck of dust on the slide) and put it in focus. I use my 20X but it doesn't really matter.

- Insert the upper DIC slider fully, and turn the sliver adjustment knob fully clockwise (It should be all of the way "in").

- Be sure the condenser polarizer is in the light path.

- Put the condenser turret into the the brightfield position (no condenser Nomarski prism in the light path!) .

- Pull out one eyepiece and look down the tube at the back of the objective. While looking down the eyepiece tube at the back of the objective, slowly rotate the condenser polarizer and see it you can get a pattern that looks about like this:

Image

If you can get such a pattern leave the polarizer at that rotational angle.
(If you can't get a pattern that looks about like this than I doubt you'll get decent DIC until you figure out what is wrong).


Now put the eyepiece back in. In the condenser turret, rotate a Nomarski prism into position and use the appropriate objective for that prism. With the upper adjustment knob in the fully clockwise position, very little (if any) DIC relief effect or coloration will be noticed. As you rotate the adjustment knob counter-clockwise you will see a change. The DIC effect increases and the background gradually becomes a darker gray. You will reach a point where it looks almost "pseudo" darkfield, and then goes back through progressively lighter shades of gray and the DIC "shadowing" effect now appears to come from the opposite side. As you continue to rotate the adjustment knob you start to get into yellow, orange, pink, magenta, blue and cyan background colors. The best DIC effect, contrast and resolution appears before and after the "pseudo" darkfield position. The colorful settings are... well.. COLORFUL... and (for my tastes) best used with restraint with biological specimens. Although I often check, because sometimes this "optical staining" does indeed bring out certain features better. For crystals, air bubbles and such dial it up to your hearts content!

Alan Wood
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Post by Alan Wood »

Charles Krebs wrote:In the BHTU there is an additional optic in the top of the stand arm. (Likely to correct the tube length for the fixed, reversed nosepiece). This is not present in the BHS and BHT. (I may be mistaken on this, but I think this extra optic also physically prevents use of the BH2-UMA vertical illuminator on the BHTU).
I don't know about the BH2-UMA, but it is physically impossible to use a BH-RLA or a BH2-RLA vertical illuminator on a BHTU stand, because they have a vertical tube underneath that needs to go where the BHTU's extra optic is.

Olympus don't tell you this directly, but the BH-2 BHM catalogue includes the BHS and BHT stands but not the BHTU stand.

Alan Wood

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Post by Alan Wood »

Charles Krebs wrote:It is very important (!!!) to use Olympus ones that are compatible with the Nomarski system! I don't know what ones were recommended for use with the older BH...
According to my September 1977 BH catalogue, the Olympus BH-NIC condenser for phase and Nomarski was supplied with 3 objectives, 10x, 40x and 100x plan achromat positive low (PL) phase contrast objectives.

My May 1982 Olympus catalogue of objectives and eyepieces for the BH does not include these, and does not mention interference contrast for any of the transmitted light objectives. For reflected light, the M Plan N objectives are stated to be strain free for use with interference contrast.

Alan Wood

Clemmys
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Post by Clemmys »

It it starting to look like the BHTU extra optic might be causing an issue with the BH2-NIC If that is the case, why does DIC work when I use the older DIC analyzer? It seems like the it wouldn't work with either analyzer if it was the extra optic of the BHTU.

Sucks that I now have two BHTU stands...my original and one that came with the 'new' DIC setup installed. Need to find a stripped BHS..

It seems to work ('new' condenser, 'old' analyzer) with both the Splans and Splan APOs. I don't have both with every magnification, but here is a comparison of 20x and 3 lens types for posterity. Only change between pictures is the optic switch and a focus adjustment. Only the Dplan seems to have strain (or other incompatibility) issues.

Image
Image
Image

Charles - I have followed your adjustments several times in the past and could never get that pattern with any combination of parts.

I think you are right in that the glue guy was probably just having a 'bad day' since there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a prior glue job

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Yeah, it troubled me that you get different results with your two sliders. That would seem to indicate that there is a second "issue" (likely in one of teh sliders), and we can't really say definitively that the BHTU extra optic is the culprit.

But you have some Olympus S Plan achromats, so at least that aspect is OK. In your troubleshooting efforts I would say to stick with the 20X S Plan Achromat. As I mentioned, the 10X DIC does not seem to be as predictable.

I'm not crazy about trying to make any DIC effect judgements based on the subject you have photographed and shown here. This is OK for looking at background coloration, but it is not a subject where you can really see the DIC effect. Have you tried other subjects?
I have followed your adjustments several times in the past and could never get that pattern with any combination of parts.
Can you describe what you see at the back of the objective if you follow the procedure outlined above? Or, if you have a macro lens take a shot down the eyepiece tube and show us.

Clemmys
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Post by Clemmys »

Charles Krebs wrote: I'm not crazy about trying to make any DIC effect judgements based on the subject you have photographed and shown here. This is OK for looking at background coloration, but it is not a subject where you can really see the DIC effect. Have you tried other subjects?
sorry about that- it is hard to take pics of anything not absolutely still with DIC and 30W=) I still haven't gotten my LED replacement up and running.

Here are a couple of pics with different analyzer tweaks compared to the 3'rd pic (regular brightfield). Beyond the neat colors, I am not sure that I am seeing any extra contrast (new condenser, old analyzer), so it may be that neither analyzer is actually working with the BHTU.

Image
Image
Image[/url]

Pau
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Post by Pau »

To me #1 and #2 pictures look like DIC, not at its best, Mainly #1. Can't you obtain a neutral gray background?

About the glued DIC prism, I'm beguinning to think that the guy had a really bad day, I suspect that the prism could had ben mounted upside down.

Try, if mechanically doable, to mount it upside down and test it, both in normal and 180º position
Pau

Clemmys
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Post by Clemmys »

Well...I finally got hold of a BHS scope. Needs a little tlc, but it works well enough for a quick test. I get the same result - a nice rainbow pattern across the field of view with the polarizers in place (doesn't matter if dic is set to 0, 10, 20, 40 or 100). So it appears that the BHT was not the reason (or the only reason for the problem with the 'new' analyzer.

Comparing the 'new' left to the 'old' right analyzer at the same angle up against my polarized lcd screen. The new one never makes black lines no matter what angle I hold it.
Image

I have tried it upside down with no success. Unfortunately I can't get the 'old' analyzer out of the slot so I can't examine it closer to compare the two.

Charles Krebs
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Post by Charles Krebs »

Unfortunately I can't get the 'old' analyzer out of the slot so I can't examine it closer to compare the two
Curious why... is the "locking screw" frozen?

Clemmys
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Post by Clemmys »

I can take the locking screw all the way out, and the analyzer still slides back and forth like the screw was still partially inserted (1 inch range of movement). There is something inside the tube still engaging the slot that makes it physically impossible for me to pull the analyzer out.

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