new member please help

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:49 am

this is a long tale .a friend of mine showed me his microscope and I was amazed at the detail you could see..i decided to find a microscope and cant decide what to get. Carl Zeiss Photo Microscope 1 or superb Leitz Laborlux 11 ...I went and looked at the zeizz and fell in love with the build quality but I for some reason seen floaters in my eye ..the guy also had an Olympus and the floaters were no were near as bad infact there was hardly any ..we changed eye pieces objectives and still the same..my question is am I better off with the zeiss or the leitz..the leitz has ef objectives and the zeiss has cheap Chinese ones..the zeiss has been converted to led I like the colurs of the zeiss haven't seen the leitz yet but the man who is selling it said it is mint like new...

my second question is I like photography and at the moment use sigma Merrill cameras with foveon sensor..i want to get myself a macro setup to use with the microscope .I have read the canon 70d is good and the swivel screen really helps but have heard still vibration problems ..any recommendations for camera ..I want to get myself Canon MP-E 65mm as ive been after one for a while but just never got around to it..i want to use the camera for all sorts of macro and icroscope use aswell...thx for any help

also out of these which would give me the best ergonomics and image quality

Brunel SP150
leitz labourluz 11
Carl Zeiss Photo Microscope 1
AmScope T490B

any other microscopes you can think of that will meet my needs would be great..price isn't really a problem but don't want to spend a fortune when the image quality could end up the same or close

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Sun May 17, 2015 1:43 pm

surely there must be someone who can comment

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:09 pm

If price is not a problem, then forget the Brunel and the AmScope.

If you buy the Zeiss, then buy the proper Zeiss eyepieces too; they are not hard to find on eBay.

If you want to take photographs through your microscope, then you would need a trinocular head and a suitable camera adapter for the Leitz. I don't know how you would attach a camera to the Zeiss, but someone on the forum must know.

Alan Wood

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:17 pm

thx alan appreciate the reply..yes I think the leitz tri is hard to find a rare item I think..so maybe the zeiss is a bit more modular..i just worry because they are older models will they still have the image quality of the newer microscopes from the like of brunel and amscope..my friend had a brunel sp40 I thought the image quality was very good but I prefer led and his wasn't .

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:37 pm

andy271 wrote:surely there must be someone who can comment

Comment on the microscope questions or the orthography?

But seriously, if you have enough money available, I would recommend buying a good quality second hand microscope from Zeiss, Leitz, Olympus or Nikon. A new microscope from Brunel or AmScope isn't good value for money in comparison. Make sure you can test the microscope before you buy or at least have a right of return.

The mechanical quality of Zeiss, Leitz, Olympus or Nikon microscopes is generally high. If the mechanics work OK, the image quality mostly depends on the optics. Your choice of optics depends on what you want to observe or image.

The choice of manufacturer (Zeiss, Leitz, Olympus or Nikon) depends on personal preference. Each system has advantages and disadvantages. Some components (like trinocular tubes; phase contrast condensors; photo eyepieces) are cheaper in one system and more expensive in the other.

I would recommend buying a microscope that is as complete as possible right at the beginning, rather than buying additional pieces bit by bit.

Ergonomy: that is very much a matter of personal preference. Best to test it for yourself.

Floaters: they originate in your own eyeballs; they become visible if the light beam is very narrow, as with observations at high magnification (objectives 40x, 100x). The Zeiss Phomi is a very complex microscope. If you didn't put in the correct auxiliary lens, Optovar position or if the condenser aperture was closed, the problem might have been worse.

Personally, I think the Zeiss Phomi is too complex for a beginner. Takes up a lot of space. I wouldn't buy it unless it is very inexpensive. The smaller Zeiss Standard 14, 16, 18 RA or WL might be more suitable. They are very versatile and can be adapted to any microscopy method.

The Leitz Laborlux 11 is opposite to the Zeiss Phomi. Very small, entry level stand. However, it appears to have a field aperture for Koehler illumination and it has a halogen light - so everything you need. Trinocular heads are relatively easy to get. EF objectives are good; you could replace some of them with NPL Fluotars later. If I had the choice, I would go for one of the larger stands of the same series (white Laborlux), like Laborlux S, D, 12, or 20. Don't know how difficult they are to convert to LED.

Regards, Ichthy

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:46 pm

andy271 wrote:i just worry because they are older models will they still have the image quality of the newer microscopes from the like of brunel and amscope..

The Zeiss and Leitz optics (plan achromat) from the 1960s will still beat what AmScope has on offer. Fluorites and apochromates even more so.

The problem with older optics is that they can be dirty or damaged (falls; scratches; oil inside; delamination in the case of Zeiss). You have to examine each of them carefully when you buy. Unfortunately it requires a bit of experience and can be a hastle. But once you have a fully set, it will have been worth it.

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:51 pm

hi ichthy yes the zeiss build quality is superb and I can get it with everything including the objectives and its been converted to led..£480 the leitz with the ef flat field obs is £300 both in mint condition..the zeiss has the square stage and its the build quality I like..yes not sure myself about led conversion..as you say objectives are the most important I suppose..not sure what to do ..I tried the brunel sp40 and hardly any floaters..zeiss had a lot of floaters ,haven't tried the leitz but I did try an old Olympus same year as the zeiss and it didn't have hardly any floaters either .I was impressed by the Olympus but the overall build I like the zeiss ..I was told the Trinocular heads for the leitz are hard to find

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sun May 17, 2015 3:16 pm

Hi Andy,

It's a difficult choice. The prices are OK-ish (in the upper range but not outlandishly high) if you have someone you can trust selling it (better to pay a little bit more than get disappointed by Ebay purchases). I wouldn't buy the Zeiss Phomi with the Chinese optics. Can you get it with the Leitz optics?

IMHO, both offers are not the best you can get for that money (£500-600).

If I were you, I would wait for other offers.

- medium size stand (Zeiss Standard 14, 16, 18 RA or WL; Laborlux S, D, 12, or 20)
- trinocular head
- set of Leitz or Zeiss eyepieces + objectives

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Sun May 17, 2015 3:33 pm

I can get the zeiss with better optics but was just goin to get used to the scope first then upgrade..i like the small size of the leitz and the fact it has ef objectives which I believe are very good..getting the tri head may be a bit of a pain..the zeiss is in great condition and has a lot of extras including the led conversion..i think I could get the price down to £450 ..or the leitz for £300..its driving me mad .

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Mon May 18, 2015 2:06 am

Being based in the UK, I have some thoughts on this. Firstly, I would always say that a good secondhand microscope from Zeiss/Leitz/Nikon/Olympus will give you much better value and potentially a much better image than a similarly priced modern microscope. In the UK it is possible to put together a nice secondhand trinocular microscope, more or less camera ready for about £450. You would be lucky to get a ready to run trinocular microscope, but if you budgeted about £300 for the microscope, eyepieces and decent basic objectives, and about £150 for the trinocular head it's perfectly doable. Decent kit within this budget regularly turn up on Ebay from reliable UK and European sellers I would trust. There are also one or two good dealers who I would be happy to PM you details of if you are interested. You don't say where in the UK you are located, But if you are within easy reach of London the Quekett Microscopical club meets monthly at the London Natural History museum, and there are a number of members including Alan and myself who can give you practical advice and assistance. Again PM me if you want details, or visit the Quekett website.

As to your quandary, I would avoid the Zeiss Phomi, it's a lovely microscope, but it's a big commitment, physicaly big, heavy, and not universally compatible with the Zeiss Standard/GFL/WL series where there are otherwise many accessories readily available secondhand.

I would try to be patient and not succumb to impulse buying, though its so tempting if you have the bug. Getting good advice is the single best way to start off the right way with a microscope and avoid repeated disappointed and ultimately greater expense. I'll PM you with details of a microscope on Ebay from a UK seller that might be a very good start, well under your budget. But you would need to ignore my advice on this one and jump as it won't linger

.

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:51 am

thx dave I will check my pm..as you say impulse purchase may be a mistake

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:19 am

hi dave thx for the link..the chap who is selling the zeiss Photo Microscope 1 has plent of spare parts and it has a lot of upgrade options that's why im tempted ..but the leitz is a much later model than the zeiss but would need a tri head..if you had the choice between the zeiss and the leitz which one would you choose and also if I bought both the zeiss and the leitz could I use the leitz ef objectives on the zeiss ..its just my friend is also interestd in a microscope so I could sell the other one to him

Cactusdave · Post by **Cactusdave** » Mon May 18, 2015 6:14 am

There are a lot of upgrades for the microscope I linked to, and because of the good trinocular head and price it would be my first choice. Yes you can use Leitz EF objectives on this stand. Not a perfect match for compensation with the CPL eyepieces, but up to X40 you wouldn't notice much problem with chromatic aberration. Zeiss planachromats and F achromats are frequently available at reasonable prices in any case.

andy271 · Post by **andy271** » Mon May 18, 2015 6:20 am

thx dave its just I love the quality of the Zeiss Photo Microscope 1 its almost like new and I have seen it in action ..and I like the fact its a big microscope,,i have got plenty of room for it so that isn't a problem..maybe I should take your advice and get the one off ebay ,if I don't like it its not much money wasted..not easy this microscope game lol

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:13 am

The Leitz Laborlux 11 is opposite to the Zeiss Phomi. Very small, entry level stand. However, it appears to have a field aperture for Koehler illumination and it has a halogen light - so everything you need. Trinocular heads are relatively easy to get. EF objectives are good; you could replace some of them with NPL Fluotars later. If I had the choice, I would go for one of the larger stands of the same series (white Laborlux), like Laborlux S, D, 12, or 20. Don't know how difficult they are to convert to LED.

I agree, but I want to add two points:
- EF objectives are achromats not full field plan corrected (semiplans) with very good contrast but not the most desirable for photography.
- The Laborlux 11 has a weird single knob focusing mechanism, BTW workable but IMO really stupid. It would be a nightmare if you want to do focus stacking and not convenient for normal work at high magnification, not even for learning microscopy. (just my opinion, maybe others love it)
Here you have its description, page 10:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 4037,d.ZGU

Other Leitz stands have exellent focusing mechanics.