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Photo of Ploum
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JL



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 134
Location: Houston, Tx

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am surprised that you can get a 0.01 micrometer precision with a mechanical system, the best I have seen are microscope fine focus mechanisms at a whole 1 micrometer. I can only guess that you have a sort of multiplier (or rather a de-multiplier) built into your system.

If sometime you fell like disclosing how did you build your system, it would be very instructive for us, and particularly for me. I understand that your equipment and technique gives you an advantage over other photographers, and you might want to keep it as a trade secret.

Do not pay attention to anybody trying to mock about your system, as they say in english "the proof is in the pudding", and your photos are awesome.

Regards.

José Luis.
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Pau
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Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 4500
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ploum, you have truely excellent mineral images. I most love your brookite floating in the icy quartz sea Shocked
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Pau
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot JL, for me it's exactly that. If results are good, system is good.

I can just said this :

In standard system all people use same technic but you can move optic system or object. But it's the same principe.

I have imagine an other system. The direct projection of image on captor is not my solution.

I prefer study primary image.... by a decoupler optic system. For me that's evident than primary image (directly on captor for standard system) is easy to study by a secondary optic system, without big precision.

Primary image have ever size between 18 mm- 24 mm. A bridge ith close-up as raynox DCR 250 are perfect....

I use now a GF5 with a 17 mm captor just less than primary image. I have discover also than an other lens you can increase the precision between 2 parts of my optic system.

GF5 is better for me because i like classic photo and different objective are intéressant.... But REFLEX have no advantage (heavy) in my system but all is possible.


Sorry if my English is unperfect Smile.
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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for all comments

variscite fov 1.5 mm APO pLAN 10x



libethenite fov 1.5 mm APO PLAN 10x

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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pau wrote:
ploum, you have truely excellent mineral images. I most love your brookite floating in the icy quartz sea Shocked


Wink yes i like it, colorless of quartz is like ice ocean, thanks for this image.
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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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GemBro



Joined: 20 Aug 2014
Posts: 261
Location: Surrey [UK]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D a m n ... a 1000 shots ... manually? ... Shocked ...

ploum ... how come the fly's eye is not as sharp as the rest of the stack? ... I am surprised to see it out of focus, especially with a 1000 shots taken ... would that be due to vibration at 10x? ...

I too would be interested in seeing your Rig/setup as well ... and thanks for replying, regarding your actual specifications earlier in this thread Wink ...

Love the minerals too ... the Brookite and azurite is my fav also ...

Gem
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Canon 550D(T2i) ML (Nightly Builds) | Raynox 250 | Palinar 35mm f2.8 (reversed) | EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 N | EL-Nikkor 50mm f4 N | EL-Nikkor 50mm f4 | Bellows | Objectives: LOMO 3.7x 0.11 : 8x 0.20 : 40x 0.65
RiG II - 'Bamboo': Olympus CH Focus Block with Inverted Arca/Swiss | Canon 430 EX (x2) | Olympus T20 flash (x2) | Youngnuo YN-622C Wireless triggers (x3) | Ikea Jansjo 3W LED Lighting (x3)
Optional Arduino based Stepper Focusing system (being built)
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rjlittlefield
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 19334
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JL wrote:
... the best I have seen are microscope fine focus mechanisms at a whole 1 micrometer.

Focus blocks can do a lot better than that, when equipped with a drive that can make very small rotations of the fine focus shaft. See for example the setup and measurements HERE.

Quote:
I am surprised that you can get a 0.01 micrometer precision with a mechanical system
...
I can only guess that you have a sort of multiplier (or rather a de-multiplier) built into your system.

From what I can see in the posts and signature ("manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision."), I'm guessing that ploum is using a screw drive that's heavily geared down. That's a reliable approach, but I agree that it's highly unlikely to really deliver 0.01 micrometer movements. That sounds like a number that one gets by calculation rather than measurement.

On the other hand, we have ploum's comment that he gets more precision at higher magnification. That comment could be explained if he's doing fine focus by tweaking tube length. In that case, movement of the front focal plane is equal to movement of the rear focal plane divided by magnification squared, so 0.01 micrometer at the front and 20x would be 4 micrometers at the rear, and that's definitely a feasible movement.

--Rik
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GemBro wrote:
D a m n ... a 1000 shots ... manually? ... Shocked ...

ploum ... how come the fly's eye is not as sharp as the rest of the stack? ... I am surprised to see it out of focus, especially with a 1000 shots taken ... would that be due to vibration at 10x? ...

I too would be interested in seeing your Rig/setup as well ... and thanks for replying, regarding your actual specifications earlier in this thread Wink ...

Love the minerals too ... the Brookite and azurite is my fav also ...

Gem


I will try with my mitutoyo 10x and compare results Wink. I hope a better result for you. I have done 1500 photo....
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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a try with mitutoyo (not the best mitutoyo i think....)

Better in corner but i prefer noname objective

Next time i try an other light Wink


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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hum i think i have found problem : lightning

Insect prefer less diffusion lighning. For minerals i have two form of diffusion.

For insect, simple diffusion are the best.

Result comes.... 1500 photo has been done at x10 APO noname
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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

last version....

not time to work problem of transparence

1500 photo APO plan 10x and my manfrotto plate Wink.


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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i try a last time without something to see difference
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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some other test.....

10x with crop 100 % fov is 1.5 mm

crop fov is 0.3 mm




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[img]
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40 mm componon crop 100 %





[/img][img][/img]
_________________
I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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ploum



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome in my minerals world Smile

nikon cfi 4x - fov 3.5 mm







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I work with a manfrotto 454 but uncommon system. No limitation, no motorisation, good precision.
Objective : rodagon 135 mm, BW APO 2x, Compon S 80 mm, nikon CFI 4x, APO componon 40 mm, componon 28 mm, APO plan 10x, Mitutoyo APO 10x, BW APO SLWD 20x. Nikon CF EPI 10x, APO SEIWA 20x, MACRO ZUIKO 35 mm, nikon MPLAN ELWD 0.5 40x, NIKON CFI PF 10x.
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abpho



Joined: 17 Aug 2011
Posts: 1426
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That last image is great because of the subject isolation. Very clean.

I once had a geode that I cut open myself. It had some nice structures in it. But they were dirty (from the cutting). After rinsing it in water the crystals were all broken. Sad
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