What to do? Volcano in my backyard=Vibrations!!

A forum to ask questions, post setups, and generally discuss anything having to do with photomacrography and photomicroscopy.

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Lou Jost
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What to do? Volcano in my backyard=Vibrations!!

Post by Lou Jost »

This is what I woke up to this morning (photo taken through my kitchen window):
Image
Volcan Tungurahua (Ecuador) had been quiet these last few months, though it had been exploding wildly earlier in the year. Today it re-awoke, just in time to mess with my microphotography. Does anybody have experience with geological vibrations? I am thinking to hang a heavy platform from my ceiling, using some static climbing rope I have. Static rope is less elastic than mountaineering rope, it is made to carry constant tension rather than to absorb a fall. It might be just right to damp the volcano's vibrations, which are sometimes strong enough to make visible standing wavelets in a glass of water on my desk....

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Lou, how cool to have your very own volcano! Must admit that if I were in your shoes, I'd probably forget photomicrography for a while and do volcano photography. Looks like a lovely volcano to climb and ski on, and the possibility of getting blown to bits at any moment would add to the sense of adventure.

The classic solution to your vibration problem is straightforward, and would probably work very well. My first awareness of it comes from Lester Lefkowitz' writings.

You get three or four small rubber inner tubes (such as those used for wheelbarrows or go-karts), and place a heavy platform on them (such as a cement paving block used in landscaping, a granite slab leftover from a kitchen counter project, or a heavy steel plate.

The inner tubes should not be fully inflated--they will need to have a little bit of air in them, but should definitely be flabby. Then the earth can shake quite a bit under your microscope, which will float serenely, and largely motionlessly, on the heavy slab.

I've experimented a bit with the technique. Though I don't have a volcano handy, I tried it with a furnace running close-by, a dehumidifier, myself jumping up and down on the floor, and a few other perturbations. If my experience is any guide, adjusting the amount of air in the inner tubes will allow you to "tune" the platform for the frequency of the vibration you want to eliminate.

On the other hand, if you go the route of hanging your platform from the ceiling, I'd suggest using a dynamic rope, rather than a static one. (For those not versed in mountain climber-speak, a dynamic rope is designed to safely arrest a fall, and has some stretch capability, typically 5-10 percent under a static load, much more under a dynamic load. However, it is not bouncy, like a bungy cord.) You want a material that does not efficiently transmit mechanical energy. An ideal material is both an inefficient conductor of mechanical energy, and an absorber of mechanical energy. An underinflated inner tube is both. My gut feel, having spent lots of time on both static and dynamic ropes, is that even a dynamic rope will transmit vibration a bit too efficiently, in the short length from your ceiling to work height (it would be different if you could hang your platform from something much higher). And it wouldn't be easy to tune the system for the frequency of vibration you need.

This last point is important--in my experience, tuning a vibration isolating platform for a particular vibrational frequency is important. And tuning to cancel one frequency of vibration may make the system more sensitive to another frequency.

Please let us know what you do, and how it works! :D

Cheers,

--Chris

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Wow!, that volcano is both beautiful and dangerous :shock:

With that kind of eruption* so close I'd forget about microscopes and, be very vigilant, maybe even evacuate the zone, well I'd evacuate my family and maybe I'd stay to take volcano pictures because I really love volcanos :wink:

*It can produce both pyroclastic flows and lahars, two of the most deadly volcanic phenomena
Pau

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Pau and Chris, thanks for the comments. If you are curious, you can see some of my older volcano pictures here, taken from this same window:
https://ecomingafoundation.wordpress.co ... h-shaking/
You're right, I do tend to forget about microphotography when that thing is going full blast.

Chris, that's a very good point about the rope. I hate dynamic rope for long free climbs because of its bounce, but you are right that a short length would behave differently. But the inner tube idea is simpler. That was one of the options I was thinking about-- I must have also gotten it from Lefkowitz or maybe John Shaw. But I had forgotten the best inflation strategy.

Will report on the results...thanks!

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Lou Jost wrote:If you are curious, you can see some of my older volcano pictures here, taken from this same window:
https://ecomingafoundation.wordpress.co ... h-shaking/
Wow! Fantastic images and a fascinating write-up. What a beautiful place you live, Lou.
I hate dynamic rope for long free climbs because of its bounce, but you are right that a short length would behave differently.
It occurred to me that I have dynamic and static climbers' ropes hanging from my ceiling. (Doesn't everybody?) So I just tried pulling on them with one hand while stomping on the floor, to get a sense of how much vibration from the stomp I could feel in the rope. (A very imperfect test in lots of ways, of course.)

With the 11mm dynamic rope that is set up for rappelling off the upstairs balcony into the living room (I have a six-year-old niece), holding it about one meter from the attachment point, I could feel the stomps very keenly. At two meters, less so, and at three meters, still less. But even at three meters I could feel the vibration--or so I think (there are several ways I could be fooling myself, here).

With a 5mm static rope (gear rope), a bit over a meter long, from which hangs a Metolius rock ring, stomping was much more clearly felt by the hand holding the rock ring, than with the dynamic rope. (Again, plenty of ways of fooling myself in such an informal test.)

Cheers, and thanks for sharing your volcano stories! :D

--Chris

--edited typo
Last edited by Chris S. on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

What other forum can produce and test such odd ideas so quickly?? Thanks so much Chris for this experiment. Dynamic rope it is, then, if the inner tubes don't work.

And thanks for the compliments on the images, even though they are the very antithesis of microphotography. Each of those red-hot arcs falling through the air were made by blocks of incandescent rock the size of houses. (And each one shakes my own house when it hits the ground!)

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

I'm reminded of this website: http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/erupting_volcanoes.html
though the display doesn't work on my PC(?) right now.


With climbing ropes I have no intimacy- my few sporting activities are those least disadvantaged by gravitational attraction.

I would be inclined to test bungees, too.
In compression, something like Sorbothane is recommended. Question is, does it work in tension? I see the material is avilable in thin sheets. These could of course be rolled or plaited into ropes.

g4lab
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Post by g4lab »

I was in a lab not long ago, in a building where they are close to St. Louis MetroLink urban mass transit electric train system. In the same lab suite were several electron microscopes all jacked up on large active, pneumatic isolation systems.

They had an inverted optical microscope that was on a large square steel plate that was suspended by what was probably similar to your dynamic cable. They had the rope coming from the four corners and attached to a single rope going up to a beam in the overhead concrete. They said it worked pretty well at isolating the train vibrations but I have to admit I did not like the way it looked at all. But it was hung on the springy rope not the stiff rope

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

g4lab and ChrisR, thanks for the ideas.

I think the trick is to NOT use just one material. Use dynamic AND static rope, AND Sorbothane. Or inner tubes + Sorbothane. As ChrisS mentioned, different materials or inflation levels will be tuned to damp different frequencies of vibrations. So a variety of materials working independently in series should be much more effective than any single material.

Example- a couple of layers of inner tubes, each layer with different amounts of inflation, topped with a layer of Sorbothane.

g4lab
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Post by g4lab »

I have no experience to base this on, but I think, that if the earth is shaking because the volcano right next door is erupting, you probably have little or no chance at all, to isolate it. Just my opinion. I have no experience living next to a volcano but I have built and consulted on several similar vibration isolators.

A couple of them were in a building that straddled the same tracks mentioned previously only farther down the line and decades ago when the train traffic were actually fast freight trains rather than commuter trains.

The frequencies you will need to isolate from are likely to be much wider bandwidth and much more random than any mere train or elevator isolating task.

There are active and tunable systems you can buy and they do appear on ebay very often.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barry-Stabl-Lev ... 1ea33d3586

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barry-Controls- ... 5d4e314a8e

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=TM ... acat=12576

The table listed thirdly can routinely be bought for small fractions of the asking prices. People look at the new prices but then they get real when they get good and tired of having one of these in their garage. I have sold a couple of them in the past.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

g4lab, thanks for the tips, but it would be hard to ship anything big to Ecuador. Apart from the shipping costs, the customs bureaucracy and potential duty and broker fee is overwhelming. I'll have to stick with simple solutions. The volcano is not always rumbling, though I can feel the floor and my desk vibrating as I write this...

MaxRockbin
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Post by MaxRockbin »

I'd second Chris S.'s suggestion about using small inner tubes. I also read about the technique in Lester Lefkowitz "The Manual of Close-Up Photography" (great book you can get online used for a few $).

Here are the tubes I ordered. I found the size about right for my platform - and the sizes of these things are a bit cryptic - so even if you aren't able to order this one, the specs may be helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Y2 ... detailpage

Despite sorbothane feet and the rubber feet that came with my aluminum base, I was just getting too much vibration for 20x shooting (even focusing was difficult). These inner tubes made a huge difference.

A couple of issues though:

After you've got the inflation right, you will want to put the tubes inside zip lock bags. If the ones you get are like mine, your house will smell like a garage for weeks if you don't seal them in something.

Also, it does take a little experimenting to get the inflation right. Your platform most likely doesn't have an even distribution of weight and you'll have to counter that with different inflation of the tubes. You do need a fairly large platform for this technique - unless you can find smaller tubes than I found. You'll need at least 3 of them and ideally 4.

They do take longer to settle than the sorbothane if you adjust something or a nearby volcano erupts. And, if you take pride in the mechanical beauty of your macro set-up, I can't say these really will help you there.
If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough. - Robert Capa

Saul
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Post by Saul »

I'm using 3pcs ( base of my setup is pretty big) :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-WHITE-SOFT-IN ... 5d5cdf4c73

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Thanks MaxRockBin and Saul for the tips. I do think I'll use variations on these inflatable things. I'll see what's locally available. Go-carts are common in my town. I bet there are small inner tubes to be had.

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