RAW, what do I need and what is the simple step by step proc

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Dearis
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RAW, what do I need and what is the simple step by step proc

Post by Dearis »

Hi there,

I am going to start shooting raw this weekend/ But I am very very confused. I need a simple step by step as to what software I need and what do I do once the shots are uploaded to my PC until they end up in photosho elements 4 (that I use)

Any help would be great

Darren

P.S. I have Camera Raw 3.4 by adobe that looks like it's a plugin, when I select it Elements 4 opens
****Darren****

The Angel’s from the Book of Life
Wrote down our Jordy’s birth
And whispered as they closed the book
"Too Beautiful For Earth"

Mike B in OKlahoma
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Post by Mike B in OKlahoma »

Adobe Camera Raw is used strictly to open up the RAW files and convert them to jpegs. It gives you quite a bit of control over tweaks that can be done during the conversion. Once you have converted the RAW file into a jpeg, you can do further editing in Photoshop Elements.

These tutorials are some good starting points:

http://luminous-landscape.com/techniques/process.shtml

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials ... shop.shtml

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials ... imer.shtml

Three of the more important things to learn about in Photoshop (in my opinion, at least) are curves, levels, and unsharp mask (often known as USM). I'm pretty sure these are similar in PSE4 to the way they work in the overpriced "full" version of Photoshop.

For more depth than the above links (which are only a beginning) you can either work on your own, and try using some of the numerous tutorials on the web for resolving different issues, or you can pick up a book or two on the subjects. Most books focus on Photoshop CS2 (or earlier versions) rather than Photoshop ELements, but there are some photoshop elements books out there. Of course, many of the things that work in CS2 will also work in Elements.

A book called "Real World Camera RAW" is very informative about RAW conversion. The author is Bruce Fraser. It covers a lot of stuff, I haven't mastered nearly all of it, but it is very helpful and readable.

RAW does give you some more options, and it is worth dealing with, in my opinion.
Mike Broderick
Oklahoma City, OK, USA

Constructive critiques of my pictures, and reposts in this forum for purposes of critique are welcome

"I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul....My mandate includes weird bugs."
--Calvin

Dearis
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
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Post by Dearis »

Hi Mike,

I use levels, curves (a plugin in elements 4) and I have not used USM yet

so adobe camera raw is that where i can alter exposure and things and do i keep it as a raw file or convert to jpeg? won't that lose quality and defeat the purpose of shooting raw?

Regards Darren
****Darren****

The Angel’s from the Book of Life
Wrote down our Jordy’s birth
And whispered as they closed the book
"Too Beautiful For Earth"

Mike B in OKlahoma
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Post by Mike B in OKlahoma »

Dearis wrote: so adobe camera raw is that where i can alter exposure and things and do i keep it as a raw file or convert to jpeg? won't that lose quality and defeat the purpose of shooting raw?
When you save as jpeg, you'll have a chance to select a "quality level" that will determine how much the jpeg compresses things, and how much quality you lose. My experience is that if you do all your editing in one session, and save at a fairly high quality level, you don't lose meaningful detail at a level that I can detect. Alternately, you can save in other formats that are lossless, such as tif or PSD. If you've done work with layers (I believe PSE4 allows layers) you'll have to save in PSD (photoshop's proprietary format) to keep the layer information separate and intact. tif and PSD take a lot more hard drive room than JPEG, of course.
Mike Broderick
Oklahoma City, OK, USA

Constructive critiques of my pictures, and reposts in this forum for purposes of critique are welcome

"I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul....My mandate includes weird bugs."
--Calvin

Mike B in OKlahoma
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Post by Mike B in OKlahoma »

Forgot to add--RAW format refers to the unprocessed information straight from your camera's sensor. So the original data is saved as a raw file. Once you process it into an image, it's no longer a RAW file, and you can't save in "RAW format". RAW just refers to the unprocessed data, and is different for each camera model (something that may cause us trouble in ten years or so).
Mike Broderick
Oklahoma City, OK, USA

Constructive critiques of my pictures, and reposts in this forum for purposes of critique are welcome

"I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul....My mandate includes weird bugs."
--Calvin

Dearis
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:45 pm
Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dearis »

Thanks mike
****Darren****

The Angel’s from the Book of Life
Wrote down our Jordy’s birth
And whispered as they closed the book
"Too Beautiful For Earth"

DaveW
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:29 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by DaveW »

Darren,

The reason you need a new RAW converter plug-in with Photoshop and Elements every time a new camera comes out is that, as yet, there is no standard RAW encryption. In fact the camera makers seem to change their encryption every time they produce a new camera in order to put Adobe on the back foot and so sell more of their own dedicated software. Nikon seems to change it's encryption with every camera, but it's own Capture software is always ready for these, whereas Adobe has to then play catch-up, even though Nikon now supposedly co-operates with Adobe for it's new NEF/RAW converters.

Though once you have the appropriate Adobe Camera RAW for your camera for your copy of Photoshop or Elements you don't need to upgrade, it it is always best to upgrade to the latest version available of Adobe Camera Raw your processing software will take because it usually has an improved RAW converter, plus many "bug" fixes, and covers all previous cameras anyway. Adobe is pushing to try and establish a universal RAW conversion standard, but the camera manufacturers do not seem to want to play ball yet.

But even with Adobe's Camera Raw plug-in's, the new ones are not always backwards compatible with some older versions of Photoshop or Elements, so if you buy a new camera you often are forced to upgrade from old versions of Photoshop or Elements because no Adobe RAW converter for your new camera will not work with them.

I think Adobe Camera RAW 3.3 and 3.4 will only work with Elements 3 onwards and Photoshop CS2. So if you bought a Nikon D200 you would not be able to use Adobe's Raw converter for it on earlier versions of their processing software.

One of the best beginners books for RAW and Elements 4 is "The Photoshop Elements 4 Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby. It runs to 439 pages and is available from Amazon.com, amoungst others.

DaveW

Carl_Constantine
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Post by Carl_Constantine »

Also, the radiant vista http://www.radiantvista.com/ has an excellent podcast on Adobe RAW. Download the MP3 and listen. They also have some wonderful video and podcast tutorials on various aspects of improving your photography and photoshop.
Carl B. Constantine

DaveW
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:29 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by DaveW »

I forgot to add that the latest Adobe Camera Raw plug-in for Photoshop CS2 and Elements 3 and 4 can be found here:-

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/ ... ftpID=3364

DaveW

DaveW
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:29 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by DaveW »

Mike

I was not quite clear what you meant above when you say;-

"So the original data is saved as a raw file. Once you process it into an image, it's no longer a RAW file, and you can't save in "RAW format". RAW just refers to the unprocessed data, and is different for each camera model (something that may cause us trouble in ten years or so)."

As far as I understood the situation it was as described by this correspondent on another web site, is this what you meant also?:-

"As far as the actual processing of a RAW file is concerned, you don't actually change the original RAW image file. When you you first open the image into your workplace in Photoshop/Elements/other program, it is just an "image" You then make the corrections to "that" image and when done, you save it as a PSD or a Tiff. The original RAW file remains untouched for you to use later, if desired, just like a negative."

DaveW

Dearis
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Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
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Post by Dearis »

Ok I understand better, so when saving the file I should change the name and save it as psd or tiff, i think is that right?

Regards Darren
****Darren****

The Angel’s from the Book of Life
Wrote down our Jordy’s birth
And whispered as they closed the book
"Too Beautiful For Earth"

Mike B in OKlahoma
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Post by Mike B in OKlahoma »

DaveW wrote:Mike

I was not quite clear what you meant above when you say;-

"So the original data is saved as a raw file. Once you process it into an image, it's no longer a RAW file, and you can't save in "RAW format". RAW just refers to the unprocessed data, and is different for each camera model (something that may cause us trouble in ten years or so)."

As far as I understood the situation it was as described by this correspondent on another web site, is this what you meant also?:-

"As far as the actual processing of a RAW file is concerned, you don't actually change the original RAW image file. When you you first open the image into your workplace in Photoshop/Elements/other program, it is just an "image" You then make the corrections to "that" image and when done, you save it as a PSD or a Tiff. The original RAW file remains untouched for you to use later, if desired, just like a negative."

DaveW
The RAW file isn't really a picture, just a collection of data. Adobe Camera Raw (or similar RAW converters) process the data and convert it into a picture format, usually jpeg or tif. They don't "destroy" the data when they process it it, it is still there on your hard drive. After ACR has processed the data into a picture, it can be stored somewhere else on your hard drive in the picture format. Your RAW file is still there, and I suggest you keep it. The technology of RAW conversion does slowly improve over time, and you may be able to get a better image out of it in a couple of years. Hope this helps!

Dearis, depending on what you want, I'd save it in either PSD, JPEG, or maybe TIF.

If you REALLY don't want to lose a single bit of image data, and have lots of space, TIF is the way to go. If you do a lot of fancy editing on a picture, and want to preserve that editing so you can tweak it later, PSD is the way to go. If you want to conserve space a bit, JPEG is probably the way to go, but with a fairly large file size and quantity.

For what it's worth, I usually save my processed images in JPEG, except that if I've done some really clever photoshop work, I'll often save it in PSD. If I did just "routine" photoshop editing (levels and/or curves, sharpening, maybe slight easy color correction) I don't usually save the full-size JPEG file anymore after I have printed it. But as mentioned, if I did something really clever or painstaking in editing, I'll save the PSD file. The RAW file is saved regardless, for any picture that's not deleted as garbage. And in a separate consolidated directory I save a web-sized edited file of my best keepers (less than 1% of the photos I don't delete as garbage).
Mike Broderick
Oklahoma City, OK, USA

Constructive critiques of my pictures, and reposts in this forum for purposes of critique are welcome

"I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul....My mandate includes weird bugs."
--Calvin

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