Correct parts to go micro with Nikon D300 and bellows

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leander
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Correct parts to go micro with Nikon D300 and bellows

Post by leander »

I am hoping someone would be kind enough to confirm if I purchase these three things I can attach my Nikon D300 camera and Nikon PB-5 bellows to a microscope objective, and would this setup be good enough to capture reasonable high quality images? I’ve looked through the website but there doesn’t seem to be a simple list of products to achieve this that I can understand. I don't want to buy the wrong things.

The microscope objective:
Edmund Nikon Achromatic Finite Conjugate Objective 10X NT59-935 http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatal ... uctid=2943
Or the Nikon Achromatic Finite Conjugate Objective 4X NT59-934
Microscope objective to Nikon D200 or D300 (I assume I will need two adapters):
1) RMS Thread to M42 Adapter for microscope objective cone http://cgi.ebay.com/RMS-Thread-M42-Adap ... 5192a1613c
2) M42 to Nikon adapter for D300 http://cgi.ebay.com/M42-Nikon-adapter-D ... 2ea8ba7a32

Edmund Nikon 10X objective: $73.00
RMS Thread to M42: $22.50
M42 to Nikon D300: $8.43
Total: $103.93

If somebody does answer this, thank you very much for your time and willingness to help a beginner.
Bruce Leander
Austin, TX

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

Hi Bruce
Yes I think those will get you a long way.
Personally I get on better with this adapter (top hat shape)
http://cgi.ebay.com/RMS-Thread-M42-Adap ... 20ba55c30b
or a flat one.

I have one of the cone ones but get a lot of reflection inside it. If you line it with something like "Protostar" (do a forum search on that) you can fix it though.

Internal reflections will have to be dealt with - the shiny M42 to Nikon adapter is obviously a target. It's not hard though, often just a ring of black paper is enough.

You won't get very far though unless you have a means to move the camera or subject in small increments, assuming you want to combine images in a stack to get more depth of field. That needn't be hugely expensive, though it can be if you want :wink: but will require some ingenuity. See the Equipment section.

You'll be able to use the 4x objective on longer bellows to give perhaps 7x, but less won't work so well.
For that, a reversed El-Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 enlarger lens works very well. Bide your time watching ebay and you should be able to get one for well under $50.
You'll need a 40.5 x 0.5mm adapter for that. You may already have a 52mm reversing ring, in which case the adapter would need to be a 52mm to 40.5mm step which should be easy to find.

Happy snapping!

Mitch640
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Post by Mitch640 »

Those will work, but it will be bare bones and I think, hard to use. I have about the same stuff, for Canon, and really good images have so far eluded me.

NikonUser
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Post by NikonUser »

I have a similar setup but with a PB-6 bellows. The adapters will work fine with a PB-6, so likely OK with a PB-5.

The cone adapter is very nice but remember that it adds a lot of extension.

To get 10x with that objective you need 150mm distance from the base of the objective to the sensor.
So it is possible that with minimum bellows + the M42-Nikon mount + the cone you may have more than 150mm.

That will work OK but will give you more than 10x.

With a little bit less than 150mm total extension you can get about a 7x magnification which sometimes ca be very useful.

Recommendation: check your total extension with min. bellows + M42-Nikon mount + cone. If greater than 150mm then still buy the cone but also buy the flat type he advertizes
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

leander
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Location: USA

Thank you!

Post by leander »

Thank you VERY much for the replies, guys. I think I will go with the flat adapter you suggest rather than the cone.

I do have a Stackshot and run it with Zerene Stacker but I've only used it for macro work. Nikkor 105mm lens with or without extension tubes, reversed 50mm lens on my macro, etc. I've been anxious to try getting higher magnification so I'll try it first with the inexpensive equipment I listed.

Do you recommend I start with a 4x or 10x objective? I know I'll get higher magnification with the 10x, but I guess my question is whether it's easier to start getting good images with the 4x (maybe greater working distance, easier to light?).

Thank you for your help - it's greatly appreciated!

NikonUser
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Post by NikonUser »

I think you will find both a 10x and a 4x very useful.
Perhaps start with a 4x, working distance 25mm vs only 5.6mm for the 10x.
I'm concerned re: the quality of this 'new' Nikon 4x, only $50.00. The NA is a low 0.1.
The older CF N Plan Nikon 4x has an NA of 0.13 and gives excellent images.
Somewhat better, and far more expensive, in the CF N Plan Apochromatic 4x
with an NA 0.2. A beautiful lens.
Both are finite lenses for 160 mm tube lengths.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

At this time I do not recommend the 4X Edmund "Nikon Finite Conjugate objective".

The 10X is good in my own tests and also has good reports from other people.

But the 4X has mediocre reports from other people. I have not tested it personally, but the design appears to be the same as an earlier model that I have tested and am not impressed by.

Given that you already have the StackShot, I think you'd be fine jumping clear to 10X for starters. Just be sure to:

a) Use flash so you don't have to worry about vibration killing your sharpness.

b) Wrap a piece of thin paper all around your subject so that you get very diffuse illumination. Kleenex tissue works well. If your flash shines directly on the subject you're likely to get strange interference effects that end up causing artifacts in the stacked results.

--Rik

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Welcome to the forum, Bruce!

I think you are generally on the right track—though the advice so far given strikes me as wise. Your approach is roughly similar to portions of my own rig, the Bratcam.

A few questions/observations:

Glad to hear you will be going with a flat adapter between your objective and bellows—though having both flat and cone-shaped adapters is not a bad thing. I use a Nikon PB-6 bellows, and have not had a PB-5 in hand. Will your camera mount directly to your bellows? My PB-6/ D200 combo will not directly mount—the bottom of the bellows blocks the camera from rotating enough to mount. So—like many others—I’ve added a short extension tube between camera and bellows allow sufficient clearance. If you need to do this, the minimum extension you can achieve is reduced by the length of this extension tube, so the cone-shaped adapter and minimum bellows extension issues brought up by ChrisR and NikonUser become even more important. My own solution is to have both cone-shaped and flat adapters at hand; cone shaped adapters are a bit easier to light around, while flat adapters provide less extension.

Also regarding your PB-5, am I correct in assuming that both the front and rear bellows standards can be moved? If so, this is a very good thing. But from the pictures I’ve seen of PB-5 bellows, the front and rear portions of the bellows base are not connected by anything. If I understand this correctly, if I had a PB-5 bellows, I’d be very tempted to bolt these two ends to an Arca Swiss plate, such as those made by Chris Hejnar. Doing this would likely decrease vibration (the enemy of high-magnification photographers), and give you a solid, convenient way to mount your rig to your Stackshot.

What ChrisR says about flocking adapters is very, very important, and may well hold true no matter which adapter you purchase. ChrisR’s advice to get some Protostar flocking material is worth repeating—Protostar is a material I use constantly in macro (and other) photography. (The other day, I put Protostar in a buddy’s 500mm telephoto, and the images from it suddenly went from unusable to very good (note for those who care about such things—this lens was modified to be used on a camera with greater register than originally intended; while I didn’t examine it before modification, I suspect that a flare-cut stop was removed by the modifier). Be aware that one can also make a pretty nice RMS adapter (for your microscope objectives) from Edmund Optics parts—but you have enough ready-made alternatives to not need to go this route.

For your M42 to Nikon adapter, you have many choices. When possible, I prefer to use things that are black, rather than silver, to reduce the chances of light bouncing around. So you might prefer a black one. This is not a deal breaker though—as ChrisR said, you can work around this.

I agree with others that 4x and 10x are very useful magnifications--probably the center of most macro work. For 4x, I use the CF N Plan Apochromat that NU referenced (slightly painful in its price, but worth it). It was a significant investment, but I don’t regret it—it’s a wonder lens. To get decent (though not equal) quality in the 5x or so regime, the EL Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 N series enlarging lens has a wide following, and can be had for fairly little money. You’ll need a few extra parts to attach this lens, but they are not expensive. A good, reversed, 50mm enlarging lens, along with a good 10x finite microscope objective make for a very solid and versatile setup, on a bellows.

(I’ll admit that my own preference is for a 10x Nikon N plan, rather than the 10x you referenced, but these are much more expensive and not so easy to find. And the decent lens you can get will of course produce far better images than a slightly better lens that you don’t have.)

Cheers and good luck!

--Chris

leander
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:39 pm
Location: USA

Post by leander »

Chris -
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.
1) I already ordered a flat adapter on eBay suggested by Chris R. It's a cheap one but should get me in the game.
2) The PB-5 Nikon bellows does allow a D200 and D300 to mount. You just have to swivel the bellows collar to portrait from landscape and it gets you away from the bulge on the camera body interferring. I learned this on the Nikonians site a few years ago. It looks like it won't mount the newer digital cameras but it actually does.
3) I laughed when I saw your comment about a rail from Chris Hejnar. I had the same worry - all that weight just attached by a 1/4" screw on the back foot of the bellows. I already contacted Chris H and it looks like his 8" rail will fit perfectly....and as you pointed out, will distribute the weight better. I am duly impressed by the weight, precision and versatility of your rig. My initial goal is a tiny, embarrassing baby step to test "going small".
4) I had guessed what flocking was but I Googled it to make sure to avoid doing something REALLY stupid.
5) I've decided to get the inexpensive 10X objective to test everything. If I really like what I'm getting and I think the quality could be visibly improved, there would be nothing holding me back from buying a higher quality objective. After seeing many pictures of people's objectives lined up it seems like it must be hard to just stop at buying one! A little bit like other photography equipment desires I suppose. It's hard sometimes not to covet in this hobby. Though I must say my coveting threshold stops well short of your rig!

Thank you again for your help. I really enjoy looking through this website. and I'm really impressed with how friendly and willing everyone is for helping a beginner. I'm sure you get these same questions all the time.
Bruce

ChrisLilley
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Post by ChrisLilley »

Chris S. wrote: Also regarding your PB-5, am I correct in assuming that both the front and rear bellows standards can be moved? If so, this is a very good thing. But from the pictures I’ve seen of PB-5 bellows, the front and rear portions of the bellows base are not connected by anything.
PB-5 is a essentially a cut-down PB-4. Both standards in a PB-5 can move (but unlike PB-4 there is no tilt and shift). The front and rear standards are certainly connected, by two metal rods (unlike the PB-4 where they are connected by four). And there is no focus rail on the bottom, unlike the PB-4.

See here for photos.

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