I have been doing macro photography for many years and am ready to dive into micro and would appreciate any advice I can get before I spend money.
Questions-
1. The advertised magnification is objective magnification X Eyepiece magnification, But what about the camera tube (on a trinocular). I have been told by one person that it is objective only and another person said that it is objective X the magnification that is built into the tube and that it should produce the same view as looking through 10X eyepieces but have seen nothing in any of the ad specs to support this.
2. Is there any advantage in buying a 10M dedicated camera as opposed to buying a low end SLR?
3. Since I am only going to use this for photography was considering a Single Tube Microscope, but when you add up all the parts to make it work it seem to be much more than a trinocular. Why is that, or am I looking at a company that only sells pro equipment and cheaper single tubes are available?
Thanx in advance, Alan
Newby Questions
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
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Charles Krebs
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This may answer a few questions (and create still more!)
http://www.krebsmicro.com/pdf/trinoc_a3.pdf
The magnification you see through the eyepieces is the product of the objective and eyepiece magnifications. Usually, the goal in setting up the camera tube it to capture, in the camera used, a view pretty close (in subject area) to what is seen in the viewing eyepieces. So the size of the sensor/film used in the camera is the key in determining what, if any, optics and magnifications are used in the camera tube.
For example, lets say you are using typical 10X viewing eyepieces on the microscope. Then, if a 35mm camera (or 36x24mm sensor size) is used you will need about a 2.5X magnification in the camera tube to record about the same view seen through the viewing eyepieces. But if you use a typical "eBay" microscope eyepiece camera with a much smaller sensor you need "reduction" optics (about 0.5X... depends on the sensor size) in order to record the same view. An APS-C size DSLR will usually be best with a 1.5X to 1.7X magnification in the camera tube.
http://www.krebsmicro.com/pdf/trinoc_a3.pdf
The magnification you see through the eyepieces is the product of the objective and eyepiece magnifications. Usually, the goal in setting up the camera tube it to capture, in the camera used, a view pretty close (in subject area) to what is seen in the viewing eyepieces. So the size of the sensor/film used in the camera is the key in determining what, if any, optics and magnifications are used in the camera tube.
For example, lets say you are using typical 10X viewing eyepieces on the microscope. Then, if a 35mm camera (or 36x24mm sensor size) is used you will need about a 2.5X magnification in the camera tube to record about the same view seen through the viewing eyepieces. But if you use a typical "eBay" microscope eyepiece camera with a much smaller sensor you need "reduction" optics (about 0.5X... depends on the sensor size) in order to record the same view. An APS-C size DSLR will usually be best with a 1.5X to 1.7X magnification in the camera tube.
Re: Newby Questions
1- Magnification isn't that important in microscopy, and even less in photomicrography. What really matters is resolution (specimen detail resolved), contrast and field of view.
When you see the image in a print or monitor the magnification is much higher than in the camera sensor. Usually in photomicrography (and macro) we refer magnification to the relationship betwen specimen size and its image on the camera sensor.
As Charles explains the goal is to match the image field in the eyepiece to the image in the camera sensor. The adequate secondary (or relay) magnification is dependent of the camera sensor size and the eyepiece field number. For exemple, I use 10X eyepieces with a FN of 18mm and a DSLR with APSC sensor, so I need a relay magnification of 1.5X - 1.6X to capture most of the visual field. If I were printing it in a a 20cm paper the final magnification would be similar to the viewing one, approx 10X the objective magnification
The relay magnification may be accomplished by several approaches:
- Direct projection of the objective image on the sensor if the objective doesn't need secondary aberrations corrections and the sensor size match the objective image circle (some Nikon systems with APSC or 4/3 cameras) (1X, i.e. no magnification)
- A low power projective eyepiece like the OLY NFK that Charles use
- A normal eyepiece (but a high eyepoint one) and a camera lens or a special microscope camera lens: "afocal" setup, like the ones I use.
- A bulit in lens in the dedicated microscope camera
2- Dedicated microscope cameras have many advantages, but if you want the best quality you need a very expensive one or go to a DSLR. Cheap eyepiece cameras have small and poor sensors and not often well matched whith the microscope FN. They are still useful for some aplications like school classroom demostrations. Some mid range microscope cameras like the chinese Moticam look promising in the paper, but I haven't experience with them. Most forum members (amateurs and some pros) use DSLRs
3- If budget allows it and you plan to use the scope frequently, go for trinocular. The direct view through the eyepieces is very convenient, for exemple it's faster and sometimes more acurate in order to set up the microscope and sample. Microscopists usually take pictures to illustrate what they are observing.
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=12147
If you provide further details of your needs and the equipment you're considering, the forum members would give more precise advise.
When you see the image in a print or monitor the magnification is much higher than in the camera sensor. Usually in photomicrography (and macro) we refer magnification to the relationship betwen specimen size and its image on the camera sensor.
As Charles explains the goal is to match the image field in the eyepiece to the image in the camera sensor. The adequate secondary (or relay) magnification is dependent of the camera sensor size and the eyepiece field number. For exemple, I use 10X eyepieces with a FN of 18mm and a DSLR with APSC sensor, so I need a relay magnification of 1.5X - 1.6X to capture most of the visual field. If I were printing it in a a 20cm paper the final magnification would be similar to the viewing one, approx 10X the objective magnification
The relay magnification may be accomplished by several approaches:
- Direct projection of the objective image on the sensor if the objective doesn't need secondary aberrations corrections and the sensor size match the objective image circle (some Nikon systems with APSC or 4/3 cameras) (1X, i.e. no magnification)
- A low power projective eyepiece like the OLY NFK that Charles use
- A normal eyepiece (but a high eyepoint one) and a camera lens or a special microscope camera lens: "afocal" setup, like the ones I use.
- A bulit in lens in the dedicated microscope camera
2- Dedicated microscope cameras have many advantages, but if you want the best quality you need a very expensive one or go to a DSLR. Cheap eyepiece cameras have small and poor sensors and not often well matched whith the microscope FN. They are still useful for some aplications like school classroom demostrations. Some mid range microscope cameras like the chinese Moticam look promising in the paper, but I haven't experience with them. Most forum members (amateurs and some pros) use DSLRs
3- If budget allows it and you plan to use the scope frequently, go for trinocular. The direct view through the eyepieces is very convenient, for exemple it's faster and sometimes more acurate in order to set up the microscope and sample. Microscopists usually take pictures to illustrate what they are observing.
For some applications you can also consider a setup without a complete microscope, like use of microscope objectives on bellows or infinite corrected ones on a tele lens:estes53 wrote: 3. Since I am only going to use this for photography was considering a Single Tube Microscope, but when you add up all the parts to make it work it seem to be much more than a trinocular. Why is that, or am I looking at a company that only sells pro equipment and cheaper single tubes are available?
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=12147
If you provide further details of your needs and the equipment you're considering, the forum members would give more precise advise.
Pau
I never used an Oly m4/3, but
If you plan to shot with the microscope (or other sources of) continous light the best option is a Canon EOS with EFSC like the 1100D or 600D because its lack of vibration in live view mode.
Search in the forum for EFSC or visit www.krebsmicro.com
If you plan to shot with the microscope (or other sources of) continous light the best option is a Canon EOS with EFSC like the 1100D or 600D because its lack of vibration in live view mode.
Search in the forum for EFSC or visit www.krebsmicro.com
Pau
According to the following article, the 600D "doesn't inherit the Silent Shooting Live View options of the EOS 60D"-
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... sign.shtml
Haven't had a chance to track down whether this is also true of the 1100D
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... sign.shtml
Haven't had a chance to track down whether this is also true of the 1100D
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rjlittlefield
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If I recall correctly, that's a good thing. The 60D messed up EFSC by introducing a slight shock at start of exposure in Live View. I believe the 600D/T3i continues the earlier tradition of starting exposure in Live View with EFSC, accompanied by a slight audible chirp but no detectable vibration.estes53 wrote:According to the following article, the 600D "doesn't inherit the Silent Shooting Live View options of the EOS 60D"
Hopefully others will correct me if I've remembered this wrong.
--Rik
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Charles Krebs
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Rik is correct.
With the T3i (and T2i and T1i) there is no user setting for "silent mode", but the feature that appeals to us high-mag photographers, the EFSC (electronic first shutter curtain), is always "on" be default in live view.
The 60D has the ability to turn EFSC on and off (by setting silent mode). But on the 60D there is some internal vibration at exposure initiation that does not occur on the other Canon bodies with EFSC.
With the T3i (and T2i and T1i) there is no user setting for "silent mode", but the feature that appeals to us high-mag photographers, the EFSC (electronic first shutter curtain), is always "on" be default in live view.
The 60D has the ability to turn EFSC on and off (by setting silent mode). But on the 60D there is some internal vibration at exposure initiation that does not occur on the other Canon bodies with EFSC.