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Assorted Italian Pasta.

 
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jotafoto



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 134
Location: Sevilla-España

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Assorted Italian Pasta. Reply with quote

Here I put a picture with the 60X / 0.7 ELWD, forced to 80X in 5D clasic. The first attempt was a disaster, so I assembled a six-axis. Some kind of monster parts of various brands, but has been very solid.
This I have done with flash, but the next I tried to make it as advised Charles Krebs, with the silent feature of live view and I got a terrible surprise, because after researching and break my head looking for the cause of the pictures come out vibrated I realized that when he passed a truck on the street, moved a little image!, I could not believe. I can not find a solution I have to take the pictures with the second curtain flash with times of 4-5 seconds minimum.
I also place a picture of freak for positioning. XY digital Screws are not needed, but I have no normal one-inch screws.



large file.




Last edited by jotafoto on Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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seta666



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 860
Location: Castellon, Spain

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great picture, impossible to make without a solid system like the one you have.
I love everything about this shot, congratulations my friend ;-)
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Last edited by seta666 on Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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morfa



Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 551
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful results! And thanks for the technical notes – very interesting!
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PaulFurman



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: SF, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Italian Pasta varied. Reply with quote

jotafoto wrote:

large file.

Wow, that takes it to a whole other level. I can't do 15x - 18x when the wind is blowing, it shakes the building as do passing cars, etc on the third floor of an old building in the city.
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Charles Krebs



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5762
Location: Issaquah, WA USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent results!

A look at the back of the camera (or external screen if attached) when in a magnified "live-view" mode can be pretty frightening at these magnifications! Wink

If only because it really shows just how pervasive and significant environmental vibration problems can be. I'm fortunate in that my location permits me use the continuous light provided by a fiber optic illuminator. But I need to be sure that the clothes washer and dryer are not in operation. No wall mounted air conditioners or room fans running. I need to be sure that the music in the room is not turned up too much (seriously!), and that no one is walking around in the rooms above.

There's little doubt that some people will find themselves working in environments where short duration electronic flash is really a necessity.

I've even discovered that the cooling fan in one of my fiber optic illuminators must be slightly off balance, and occasionally (but not always ) seem to hit a "resonating frequency" with the way a subject is mounted and at 10X magnified live-view I can see a high frequency, low amplitude vibration of the subject. (I'm not even sure electronic flash would be completely successful ion this case).
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rjlittlefield
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 18244
Location: Richland, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderful image!

To reduce vibration coming from outside, the standard solution is to make an "isolation platform", very heavy with squishy supports. Lefkowitz (pages 157-158) describes a platform that weighs 80 kg, supported on four go-cart inner tubes inflated to low pressure (3 psi).

I'm not sure even that is enough isolation to allow continuous illumination at 60X. But maybe it's worth a try?

--Rik
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Barry



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Javier, nice picture!
Sharp indeed, but I especially like the composition of colours.

Vibration: I dont use flash, only continuous light. When I started stacking I got frustrated because I had a (mechanically spoken) very good setup, but results were constantly "unsharp". Finally I found guilty the fan of my fibre optic illuminator. (rubber feet on both setup and illuminator did not eliminate this issue.)

After solving the issue my results became sharp....but a while ago I was dissapointed again by lack of sharpness in one session. Again I found the cause: the clothes washer of the floor above! And note that magnification was not huge, 6x. It doesnt really blur the image, but it is just not tack-sharp.

Now I use live view on the computer through canon "EOS Utility" : choose 'detail view' and set this to 200%: the image isnt really sharp on screen but now you see every vibration: wind, somebody walking, anything. Even the vibration caused by pressing the spacebar to take a picture.
(Havent tried music yet...!)

A real isolation platform is hard (or expensive) to build I think.

Regards,
Barry
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jotafoto



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 134
Location: Sevilla-España

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your comments.

After seeing that is not a problem only mine, I'm more consistent with what happens. I thought I was living in a house of paper.

In my case with the equipment I am using no solution. The tests I did were at night and passed a truck every 15 or 30 seconds, but during the day, spend three every second, (I live 50 meters from the metropolitan belt). So I have to use flash, second curtain always (and still care, because even with flash, can go trembled photos).

Another option that comes to mind is work for these increases over 10X, with a episcope olympus, which I bought when I started, but he had mounted a complex lighting system and went on to use a vertical support building an enlarger LPL. The episcope is so solid that even with very high extensions, you can be banging small, the device and did not move the image, because the whole system is in one piece, optics, camera and shows. If vibrations affect everything at once. I have to try again with a different view of the problem. Maybe the solution in my case. The table with pneumatic system, would also be another option, but very expensive.

I will tell you the results.

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seta666



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 860
Location: Castellon, Spain

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Javier for the picture of the month ;-)
I know you have work hard to get those impressive results, and still do!!!
You deserve it
Regards
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arnsteins



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 29
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome picture! Congratulations -and thanks for the technical info.

-Arnstein
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DaveW



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 1702
Location: Nottingham, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rik mentions Lefkowitz's vibration isolation platform of heavy paving slabs on top of partially inflated tyre inner tubes. The principle being that a heavy weight on top of a flexible medium is hard to start into motion because of inertia. A one ton block of concrete would be better, but a bit impractical! To put it in highly technical terms, what you need is something squashy with something heavy on top! Laughing

Also tall rigs or cantilevered ones will be likely to sway and show base vibration effects more than horizontal ones with a lower centre of gravity and so magnify any vibration motion the base receives. The other technique is to tie subject and camera together so they both vibrate or move in unison, so appear static to each other. Oxford Scientific Films used this method years ago to film high magnification natural history subjects on the heaving decks of ships.

http://physics-animations.com/Physics/English/spri_txt.htm

http://www.vistekinc.com/vibration-isolation-platform.php

http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=43125

http://www.newport.com/content/pdf/LFW%20Vibration%20Control%20Article2.pdf

Another factor that has to be taken into consideration, even if you could entirely isolate the base from vibration, is sympathetic vibration of the structure itself. The classic example is wine glasses in a cupboard that vibrate in harmony with a noise that may be produced a considerable distance away and is air transmitted and not from actual vibrations through the structure you are working in.

Often foaming tubular metal structures internally with door or window fixing foam will help to mitigate this, or damping in some other way. Many movie photographers preferred heavy old wooden tripods to metal ones since wood did not pick up sympathetic vibrations and "ring" in sympathy like metal ones.

Interesting demonstration of sympathetic vibration here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWKiWaiM3Pw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4Qw9-Lnr8

Moral seems to be if you want good high magnification pictures shut the music and TV off!

DaveW
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Tomatito



Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excelent image...you have quite interesting equipment..I think when you put the camera still in horizontal level on the board and you are moving the subject against the camera there shouldn't be problem with a vibrations (it means the microslider is on the same board)...I was doing some photos with carll zeiss 50:1 and I didn't have any problem with vibrations Smile
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