More magnification wanted on Sony A900

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DavieR
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:48 pm
Location: Scotland

More magnification wanted on Sony A900

Post by DavieR »

With 68mm of extension tubes and a Sony 100mm at minimum focusing distance I can get 1:1.8 magnification but with some vignetting (approx 250px along each edge). Short of buying a Canon camera and a MPE 65mm what are my options for achieving 3x magnification AND maintaining auto operation for use in the field?
  • More extension tubes would reach 1:2.48 but would probably be very unwieldy and also increase vignetting.

    I'm looking for a set of Minolta/Sony auto bellows but they are not easy to find - Novoflex apparently made some once.

    Close-up lenses? I always have concerned about IQ degradation, but perhaps I shouldn't worry?

    A shorter macro lens on tubes might suffice (approx 1:2.3) but what about lens to subject distance?

    How about a 1.4x converter + tubes on my 100mm macro? That would give me 1:2.52, I think. Again, I am concerned about IQ.

    A lens combo is a possibility but I read Rik's post in the FAQs - http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=8336 and that put me off this option.
I cannot think of anymore options, have I missed anything? What are your recommendations? And no, I can't justify buying a Canon :cry:

David

ChrisLilley
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Location: Nice, France (I'm British)

Post by ChrisLilley »

Does the Sony Alpha require an electronic connection, or is it mechanical?

I see a set of Minolta Auto Bellows on eBay currently. The seller is in Germany.

I'm surprised that extension tubes give vignetting.

A good quality (two element achromat, multicoated) close-up lens can give good results for a modest investment and would be worth experimenting with, in my opinion.

The same extension tubes on a shorter focal length lens would indeed give more magnification but, as you note, with a very short working distance.

DavieR
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:48 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by DavieR »

ChrisLilley wrote:Does the Sony Alpha require an electronic connection, or is it mechanical?
Its electronic. I have a set of Minolta Auto Bellows and the Minolta MD to Sony adapter. In the studio they are fine but impractical outside.
I'm surprised that extension tubes give vignetting.
Yes, its a pity. It starts quite near Infinity focus.
A good quality (two element achromat, multicoated) close-up lens can give good results for a modest investment and would be worth experimenting with, in my opinion.
I think its probably the easiest option, until I can find that illusive Sony auto bellows.

Thanks for your thoughts Chris.

David

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Consider also the Raynox series of closeup lenses. They are even more highly corrected than 2-element achromats. On other cameras, some of our members have gotten world-class results. In searching the forum's archives, I can't find anything about your specific combination.

--Rik

DavieR
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:48 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by DavieR »

Re Raynox lenses. http://raynox.co.jp/english/digital/dmc_g1/index.html

Thanks for the suggestion Rik.

How can I work out the magnification range when using Raynox lenses on a 100mm 1:1 macro?

I've spent nearly the entire evening searching the forum and other places and I can't find the answer I'm looking for (possibly not asking the right question!). When I do find something, I get lost in the maths :roll:

The Raynox MSN-202 is 25 diopter, the DCR-250 is 8 diopter.

Thanks

David

Bob S
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Post by Bob S »

Adding a 25 diopter lens to a 100mm 1:1 macro lens ought to give you about 2.5X when the main lens is set for infinity, and about 5X at close focus.

This estimate is based on rules of thumb and mental math, so it might be in error; there is no substitute for a test if you need certainty.

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

DavieR wrote:How can I work out the magnification range when using Raynox lenses on a 100mm 1:1 macro?
Bob S wrote:Adding a 25 diopter lens to a 100mm 1:1 macro lens ought to give you about 2.5X when the main lens is set for infinity, and about 5X at close focus.
The 2.5X at infinity focus should be very close to exact. That configuration gives just the ratio of the focal lengths: 100 mm on the rear vs 40 mm (1000/25) on the front.

What happens at close focus is a lot harder to predict and depends on details of the lenses that aren't published. I'm suspecting a lot less than 5X.

As a quick test, I tried just now sticking a 50 mm lens (+20 diopters) in front of my Sigma 105 mm macro.

At infinity focus, the pair gives 1.98X versus a theoretical 2.1X.

But with the Sigma focused at 1:1, magnification increases only to 2.75X. That's versus a theoretical 5.2X based on the simplest "thin lens model" of a 105 and a 50 crammed tight together at 210 mm away from the sensor. Obviously simple theory does not work well here.
I've spent nearly the entire evening searching the forum and other places and I can't find the answer I'm looking for (possibly not asking the right question!). When I do find something, I get lost in the maths
I share your frustration, but there's no getting around the fact that lens combos are complicated and hard to predict --- as illustrated above.

Nonetheless, both theory and experiment suggest that you can reach your 3X target, or very close to it, using the stronger Raynox. As Bob says, only a real test will tell for sure.

--Rik

DavieR
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:48 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by DavieR »

Bob and Rik. Thank you, that's just what I needed.

In the clear light of a new day I remembered that I have a lens coupler so I put a 50mm on my 100mm macro and can get 2x at infinity. At closest focus I can get 3.27x

The 25 diopter Raynox MSN-202 is available from Amazon for around £50.

Thanks again

David

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