Hey guys, I just found these old photos in my collection, and thought I'd post them to get your feedback/critique, and maybe some help with identification?
Other than minimizing CA and resizing to fit the guidelines, no major editing was done to either image.
They were found from late October to mid November at my favorite location, and they're roughly a centimeter in diameter from pedal tip to pedal tip.
Tiny Flower
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:01 pm
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23626
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
- Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
- Contact:
At 1 cm diameter, it's largely a tribute to how shallow DOF gets for small subjects.
The EXIF data says that these were shot at f/8 on a Panasonic DMC-FZ7.
Using the standard formulas for DOF of an f/8 image on a 5.75 x 4.31 mm sensor, total DOF is only about 0.4 mm. That's about enough to encompass the tips of the yellow parts and whatever parts of the petals happen to lie in the same plane.
Stopping down really isn't going to help either. f/8 on that size sensor is equivalent to about f/50 on 35-mm film and f/30 on most DSLR's. It's already small enough that diffraction is starting to kick in. Starting from this point, making the aperture smaller would make the fuzzy bits sharper, but the sharp bits fuzzier. Changing sensor size won't help either, since DOF and diffraction scale together.
This DOF problem is fundamental physics of ordinary lenses.
There are some technical tricks to attack it. One of them is focus stacking, with multiple frames and an ordinary lens. Another, given a lens that will tilt, is to tilt the plane of focus to line up better with the subject (Scheimpflug principle). Then there are some really exotic techniques like "wavefront focusing", which uses strange optics to scramble the image followed by digital processing to make it look normal again, but with increased DOF.
In daily practice, the most practical attack may be artistic: choosing a subject and composition where the sharp bits are so interesting that either nobody is bothered by the fuzzy bits or best of all where the fuzzy bits complement the sharp bits and make them look even better. No easy trick, in either case!
The flower is something in the Aster group, but I can't get more specific than that.
--Rik
The EXIF data says that these were shot at f/8 on a Panasonic DMC-FZ7.
Using the standard formulas for DOF of an f/8 image on a 5.75 x 4.31 mm sensor, total DOF is only about 0.4 mm. That's about enough to encompass the tips of the yellow parts and whatever parts of the petals happen to lie in the same plane.
Stopping down really isn't going to help either. f/8 on that size sensor is equivalent to about f/50 on 35-mm film and f/30 on most DSLR's. It's already small enough that diffraction is starting to kick in. Starting from this point, making the aperture smaller would make the fuzzy bits sharper, but the sharp bits fuzzier. Changing sensor size won't help either, since DOF and diffraction scale together.
This DOF problem is fundamental physics of ordinary lenses.
There are some technical tricks to attack it. One of them is focus stacking, with multiple frames and an ordinary lens. Another, given a lens that will tilt, is to tilt the plane of focus to line up better with the subject (Scheimpflug principle). Then there are some really exotic techniques like "wavefront focusing", which uses strange optics to scramble the image followed by digital processing to make it look normal again, but with increased DOF.
In daily practice, the most practical attack may be artistic: choosing a subject and composition where the sharp bits are so interesting that either nobody is bothered by the fuzzy bits or best of all where the fuzzy bits complement the sharp bits and make them look even better. No easy trick, in either case!
The flower is something in the Aster group, but I can't get more specific than that.
--Rik
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:01 pm
Thanks for the info Rik, I'll have to try stacking some time.
I understand DOF is going to be a problem with any macro lens of this magnification. But what I was talking about (and maybe I'm just being too nit-picky) is that even what's inside the DOF appears somewhat soft on this lens setup?
Thanks Rik, that's about as much as I could tell myself... If I ever figure out anything more specific I'll post and let you know; if you want.
I understand DOF is going to be a problem with any macro lens of this magnification. But what I was talking about (and maybe I'm just being too nit-picky) is that even what's inside the DOF appears somewhat soft on this lens setup?
Thanks Rik, that's about as much as I could tell myself... If I ever figure out anything more specific I'll post and let you know; if you want.
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23626
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
- Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
- Contact:
You're in a better position to tell because you can see all the pixels. All I can see here is 800 pixels wide. At that reduced resolution, the 2nd one looks OK in the fine detail of the yellow bits at image center. I can't tell about edges, since I can't figure out for sure whether anything there should be sharp. The first one does look less than crisp everywhere, and I'm presuming that it's just missing focus at the tips of the yellow bits.
--Rik
--Rik
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:01 pm
Yeah, you're right, it looks relatively fine at 800px.
What do you think of the full size file here?
That's exactly what happened with the first one, the DOF is slightly closer than "the tips of the yellow bits".
What do you think of the full size file here?
That's exactly what happened with the first one, the DOF is slightly closer than "the tips of the yellow bits".
- rjlittlefield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23626
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:34 am
- Location: Richland, Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Fuzzy and aberrated except right in the center. You're saving up for some better glass?homestar455 wrote:Yeah, you're right, it looks relatively fine at 800px.
What do you think of the full size file here?
--Rik
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:01 pm
Yep, I'm hoping to get the Raynox DCR-250 sometime soon... Though I think I've said that since last year when you showed me what could be done with one. lolrjlittlefield wrote: Fuzzy and aberrated except right in the center. You're saving up for some better glass?
--Rik
When I do get it, I'll hopefully start getting better pictures to post here... Especially come spring, I've been scouting areas for macro shooting.