How to trigger slave flash with Canon Speedlite 430EX II?

Planapo · Post by **Planapo** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:43 pm

I have a Speedlite 430EX II now, but just found out that apparently it has no PC sync outlet

, shame on Canon!

I would have wanted to trigger a Vivitar 283 as slave flash with a pc sync cable coming from the 430EX II.
Now, there are a lot of cheap optical slave triggers, as this Seagull SYK-3 and alike, but from what I read they will be triggered too early by the Speedlite's pre-flashes that are fired to measure exposure before the main flash is released.
Hmm, are there any of such optical slave triggers that can filter out/ignore the pre-flashes or is there another way of fill-flash slave triggering? Anybody been there, done that?

--Betty

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:44 pm

There was one Betty, but I can't remember if this was the one, but evidently only sold as a kit now:-

http://www.pbase.com/sinoline/sft_kit

Also depends on how far away from the camera you want the flash since there are dedicated flash cords that transmit all the hot-shoe information along a lead to the latest Canon flash's, but I doubt the Vivitar. They clip on the flash's hot shoe, so no PC socket needed. Also a PC socket cannot transmit all the modern hot-shoe information anyway..

http://www.dvshop.ca/digcamera/canonflashes.html

DaveW

Peter M. Macdonald · Post by **Peter M. Macdonald** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:27 pm

Betty,

Beware hard wiring a Vivitar flash to a Canon DSLR. The trigger voltage will fry the electronics in the camera. You can get cords and remote shoes to protect the camera. Wein, for one, make them. They are quite expensive. It should be possible to set up two flashes with the Y shaped cord which Canon makes and use a Wein camera protector to mount the 283. May be almost as cheap to get a second Canon flash!

Peter

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:45 pm

The slave flash wouldn't have an output level controlled by the camera, I think?
Presumably if you put the main flash on manual (as well) it would only fire once?

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:21 pm

Hi Betty,

Yes, there is at least one slave that can be set to "ignore" the metering flash (probably more).

I have this one and (despite the two "bad" reviews) it has worked well for me with my Canon flash tripping a Vivitar.
http://www.adorama.com/SUDSUWP.html?sea ... h%2c+slave

But remember... If you are using the Canon flash at a "manual" flash setting (which is actually a good idea if you are doing a "stack") there will be no "metering" flash and any decent cheap slave will be fine for the 283.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:20 am

Yes, as Peter says be careful using older flashguns directly on modern cameras. In the manual camera days, as I understand it, the camera switches for the flash were purely mechanical and could take the higher voltages. The modern cameras use electronic switching and most modern flashes use a much lower trigger voltage because of this so as to avoid damage to the electronics.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/Us ... ltage.html

http://www.photographers.co.uk/html/studio-flash.cfm

http://www.theothermartintaylor.com/mov ... 00156.html

http://www.acecam.com/photography/2108.html

Some claim that cameras with a PC socket for using studio flash can take higher trigger voltages on the PC socket than they can using the cameras hot shoe, therefore using a hot-shoe to PC socket adapter on modern cameras that don't have a PC socket is risky because the hot-shoe cannot handle these high PC cord voltages.

http://photocamel.com/forum/canon-forum ... ltage.html

The problem is nobody seems to be able to get a definitive answer from the manufacturers, who don't want people using third party equipment so say they don't support it, and to use their own equipment which is safe.

Some reports say some PC sockets are safe at higher voltages on certain cameras, whereas others say they are connected to the same circuit as the hot-shoe on others.

As really the purpose of a cameras PC sync socket is to use studio flash rather than dedicated flash on the hot-shoe, one can only wonder why it is there on a camera if not for that purpose? Cameras that can not stand such trigger voltages would surely just leave the PC socket off, just providing a dedicated hot-shoe? Some also claim as Pro cameras are used more with studio flash they can stand higher trigger voltages on the PC socket.

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t ... hguns.html

Whilst some say they have used old flashes on modern electronic cameras without any trouble, the damage like pitting of the contacts can be cumulative and eventually lead to failure.

DaveW

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:28 am

one can only wonder why it is there on a camera if not for that purpose

I haven't seen a studio with flash plugged directly into a camera for maybe 20 years. Trip hazard!! Normal thing is to use a small transmitter which is non-dedicated. It's common to use the CP socket for that.

Planapo · Post by **Planapo** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:05 am

Thanks for your answers, boys!

What I'm planning is a self-made flash system for field work, like that on Lefkowitz p. 201 (the two lower images).

(I will get me some assistance in the workshop

And I'm already expecting, once again, comments like: "What?! Such a precise hole in this aluminium board?! No, no can't do that with our pneumatic Bosch drill hammer, need a drill press for that!" But in the end and some swear words later

, he will have drilled the aluminium somehow. )

With such a flash bracket, I'm thinking of using the Speedlite as main light on one side with a dedicated off-camera cord that will keep E-TTL II mode. On the other side I'm planning to use an old flash without TTL as fill-in light, triggered by the optical slave. With such an optical slave that Charlie provided the link to, that should work, shouldn't it?

For around 780,- EUR Canon's Macro Twin Lite MT-24EX is rather pricey over here, and I would expect getting decent results with such a self-made flash system already.

Or is there anything that would speak against my plans?

Charlie, for bench work with manual settings, can you recommend such a simple slave trigger that is known to work well? There are so many out there, makes it hard to choose one.

--Betty

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:58 pm

Betty, I had a look at Lester's example and can see what you have in mind.

The links below are two eBay items that I have been looking at. A 'C' and an 'O' shaped bracket.

I'm not sure if they would be applicable for macro; but I keep looking at them.

Would need to arrange the bracket in an appropriate, practical position for macro and make some alterations?

Just thought I would throw that particular approach into the mix for consideration.

Have a look at all the pictures in the listing for various configerations, and bracket positioning, etc.

I'm not convinced; but at that price, it probably wouldn't hurt to have one on-hand to play 'round with?

The more I play 'round with brackets/ flash units and diffusers, etc, the more I tend to lean toward the MT-24 EX (especially for hand held in the field), even though it has some issues that also need to be addressed (the first being the price tag).

eBay item #: 160377307057
ebay item #: 160377307155

Craig

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:35 am

I use one of these Manfrotto brackets than can take two flashes but also the camera can be turned vertical or to any angle in between. It does not have flexible arms to higher the flashes though:-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/muzzlehatch/582412490/

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototip ... ckets.html

The Novofllex brackets seem customisable and can have flexible arms:-

http://www.adorama.com/NVMFBWFA.html?se ... sh+bracket

http://www.adorama.com/NVFBAR.html?sear ... sh+bracket

Many pages of flash brackets and bits and pieces here if you click on the numbers at the top for next page:-

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=i ... Startat=21

See also:-

http://www.flaghead.co.uk/pages/custom/ ... intro.html

DaveW

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:45 pm

Betty,

for bench work with manual settings, can you recommend such a simple slave trigger that is known to work well? There are so many out there, makes it hard to choose one.

If you're slaving a Vivitar 283 on a "tabletop" setup just about any of the cheap ebay ones should be fine. (The ones I use look like ebay 120504328479 but I got them some time ago and think I paid about $10 apiece. Look like the prevalent ones these days are like #310187677467 and go for between $7-10. The main thing I wanted was a 1/4-20 threaded bottom and a PC connection (don't normally use it but nice if you ever have a need), and it looks like most have this. These have been sturdy enough for tabletop use, but I would be a little cautious using them on a "mobile" field rig with an expensive flash attached.

By the way... I was looking up some additional inexpensive manual flash units for my youngest son (he's getting more "into" photography since his daughter was born... and I think he likes the "strobist" approach to lighting). I came across a couple of flash units that might be of interest for your "Lefkowitz" field bracket. Might be a better solution than the "digital slave" we discussed (if they work properly) and not really too much more money than the slave unit alone. Check out ebay 150394864625 or perhaps the older model 270499160620. Both have muti-mode built in slaves that can be set to ignore the Canon E-TTL metering flash, and have built in power adjustment down to 1/64. (I think I may actually try the one at 150394864625)

Planapo · Post by **Planapo** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:33 am

Craig, Dave, Charlie, thanks for your further help!

Craig, I have had a look at those brackets from China, and think they could be good for field work and are not as bulky as Lester's bracket. But then I like Lester's for its versatility. I now think I could use it for bench work as well: In my "studio" situation used upside down and with an added cantilever arm that will be suspending the Lester bracket from a wall or the ceiling, it will give me more room on my table and I won't run the risk of knocking over my wobbly light stands anymore.

Dave, looks like with that one bracket Novoflex might have been inspired by Lester too.

Charlie, thanks much for the recommendations. These flash units with their wide range of fine adjustment in manual mode are attractive indeed for my intended purpose.
And thanks for the link to Eric's site. I recognize some people I have already got to know from elsewhere.

Love the "Kamikaze rice cereal"!

Interesting for me to see pictures of places in Seattle off the beaten tracks. Looks like there are quite cosy corners: I like the view over the wooden/timber houses with their smoking chimneys very much.
And you can tell him, I was quite impressed that one can achieve such an appealing photograph of a dog "doing his business"!

--Betty