Hello All,
I've been watching with awe and envy all of the amazing images coming from the members of this forum, and it's become clear to me that the days of golf being my most expensive hobby are coming to an end. So now I must decide where to begin. There has been so much good info from so many forum members that I can't imagine where else I could have gotten started. Charles, the guides on your site and your response to OzRay's post of 9.14.09 have been invaluable as I try to pull together a game plan for my initial rig. Many of my questions have already been answered by poring over the forums, but there are a few that remain. First, these are some of my priorities:
* I'm trying to keep my initial step to stay under $2000. This would ideally land me a used trinocular microscope from one of the "big four" - hopefully an Olympus or a Nikon - and some serviceable objectives.
* My priority will be on crisp, clear micrographs. Photo quality is more important to me than magnification (at least initially). If that means a first year of water fleas and mosquito larvae, so be it.
* I want to be sure that my first purchases won't burn any bridges for planned upgrades. Ultimately I would love to end up with a microscope using infinity Plan Apos, with a Krebs-style non-contact photographic rig based around a bellows/copy-stand mounted Canon EOS Rebel T1i with external flash. I would like to be able to add functionality as it becomes affordable - polarization, darkfield, and hopefully DIC someday. Big dreams, but I'm starting small, so I want to make sure that whatever I buy doesn't foul my intended upgrade path.
That's the basic idea at this time, so here are a couple of questions:
It sounds like my initial purchase of a microscope is the first place where I must not screw up. Since I ultimately want to be using infinity Plan Apos, am I correct is assuming that the microscope itself must be compatible with infinity objectives - that the ability to use infinity objectives is not something that I can add to a microscope at a later time? Also, am I correct in understanding that as far as objectives go I must pick a team (Olympus, Nikon, etc.) with that initial microscope purchase and stay with it as long as I'm using the microscope? It sounded like using infinity objectives means one can no longer mix and match brands - is that right? Last question (for now): Is there a guide anywhere out there that explains the prefixes used on plan apos ("S"Plan, "M"Plan, etc)? Do these designations mean the same thing across brands? I've dug through the Olympus and Nikon sites and have not been able to find any real explanation of those prefixes - the sites are huge so I may have missed it.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me on all this, and thank you again for all the info you've already made available.
Hales
Advice on Yet Another Microscope
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Charles Krebs
- Posts: 5865
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 pm
- Location: Issaquah, WA USA
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Greetings Hales,
Here's a page with some objective "nomenclature":
http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/opt ... specs.html
Some of the prefixes are universal, others specific to a manufacturer. For example the "S" as in S Plan is an Olympus thing. As far as I know it just designates a particular line of objectives, one that provides a slightly larger image circle than some or their other objectives. On the other hand "M" is fairly universal for a "metallurgical" objective, one that was designed to be used with reflected light (episcopic) illumination and generally with no cover slips over the subject.
While there are some unusual exceptions (there always seems to be some odd exceptions
) you don't change a "finite" microscope over to an "infinity" microscope.
If you want to work up to higher end infinity microscope optics without changing the stand and other components then yes, you will need to choose and stick with one manufacturer. No mix and match. You will sometimes come across people who claim to do this with varying degrees of success, but it's not a good idea.
" Ultimately I would love to end up with a microscope using infinity Plan Apos, with a Krebs-style non-contact photographic rig based around a bellows/copy-stand mounted Canon EOS Rebel T1i with external flash"
Keep an eye on the newer camera features. The Canon body I am using now (and the other ones that have an electronic first shutter curtain in live-view mode, like the T1i) could be microscope mounted. Certainly for continuous light. And even though with electronic flash you must revert back to using the mechanical first shutter curtain, the short flash duration should take care of any problems. (However there's no doubt in my mind that with SLR cameras that have more conventional mirror/shutters the separately mounted camera helps a great deal).
Regards,
Charlie
Here's a page with some objective "nomenclature":
http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/opt ... specs.html
Some of the prefixes are universal, others specific to a manufacturer. For example the "S" as in S Plan is an Olympus thing. As far as I know it just designates a particular line of objectives, one that provides a slightly larger image circle than some or their other objectives. On the other hand "M" is fairly universal for a "metallurgical" objective, one that was designed to be used with reflected light (episcopic) illumination and generally with no cover slips over the subject.
While there are some unusual exceptions (there always seems to be some odd exceptions
) you don't change a "finite" microscope over to an "infinity" microscope.If you want to work up to higher end infinity microscope optics without changing the stand and other components then yes, you will need to choose and stick with one manufacturer. No mix and match. You will sometimes come across people who claim to do this with varying degrees of success, but it's not a good idea.
" Ultimately I would love to end up with a microscope using infinity Plan Apos, with a Krebs-style non-contact photographic rig based around a bellows/copy-stand mounted Canon EOS Rebel T1i with external flash"
Keep an eye on the newer camera features. The Canon body I am using now (and the other ones that have an electronic first shutter curtain in live-view mode, like the T1i) could be microscope mounted. Certainly for continuous light. And even though with electronic flash you must revert back to using the mechanical first shutter curtain, the short flash duration should take care of any problems. (However there's no doubt in my mind that with SLR cameras that have more conventional mirror/shutters the separately mounted camera helps a great deal).
Regards,
Charlie
Thanks for the info Charlie. If I could mount to the 'scope it does seem like it could save me some headache. One point of clarification though - I read your guide and it sounded like one of the virtues of your copy-stand setup was that it provided you with the ability to really zero in on perfect focus. If I go with the microscope mounted option would I be sacrificing that at all? would I still be able to avoid the use of a camera lens?Charles Krebs wrote:The Canon body I am using now (and the other ones that have an electronic first shutter curtain in live-view mode, like the T1i) could be microscope mounted. Certainly for continuous light. And even though with electronic flash you must revert back to using the mechanical first shutter curtain, the short flash duration should take care of any problems.
Hales
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Charles Krebs
- Posts: 5865
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:02 pm
- Location: Issaquah, WA USA
- Contact:
Hales,
One is to use it with a "photo-eyepiece" of some type (placed to receive the microscopes "intermediate" image) to project this image onto the sensor/film. This photo-eyepiece is normally selected (or set up) to achieve a magnification or reduction of the intermediate image so that it "fits" as desired on the sensor/film.
The second is to use "direct projection" where the sensor/film is located at a location so that the intermediate images falls directly upon it. This is not always possible with some cameras or microscopes. It is also more practical with sensors in the size range of 4/3 to APS (sensor diagonal from about 21 to 28mm).
In both cases I think it is extremely desirable to make the camera "parfocal" with the eyepieces. In practice this can only be accomplished if there is an ability to adjust the camera mount up/down in very fine increments. This capability is available on a few "stock", manufacturer provided arrangements, but it is nowhere near universal. Many adapters will get the camera sensor very close to the proper location, but not exactly in focus at the same time as the viewing eyepieces. The result is that the camera on top needs to be fine focused independently from the eyepiece view.
On the BHA I use with my vertical illuminator I mount the 50D directly atop the trinocular tube. The adapter I made incorporates a helical focusing tube (scavenged from a Vivitar 2X macro teleconverter). This, together with the 10X magnified "live-view" provides a very fast way of making the microscope camera and eyepieces parfocal.
There are two ways of using a "lens-less" camera.I read your guide and it sounded like one of the virtues of your copy-stand setup was that it provided you with the ability to really zero in on perfect focus. If I go with the microscope mounted option would I be sacrificing that at all? would I still be able to avoid the use of a camera lens?
One is to use it with a "photo-eyepiece" of some type (placed to receive the microscopes "intermediate" image) to project this image onto the sensor/film. This photo-eyepiece is normally selected (or set up) to achieve a magnification or reduction of the intermediate image so that it "fits" as desired on the sensor/film.
The second is to use "direct projection" where the sensor/film is located at a location so that the intermediate images falls directly upon it. This is not always possible with some cameras or microscopes. It is also more practical with sensors in the size range of 4/3 to APS (sensor diagonal from about 21 to 28mm).
In both cases I think it is extremely desirable to make the camera "parfocal" with the eyepieces. In practice this can only be accomplished if there is an ability to adjust the camera mount up/down in very fine increments. This capability is available on a few "stock", manufacturer provided arrangements, but it is nowhere near universal. Many adapters will get the camera sensor very close to the proper location, but not exactly in focus at the same time as the viewing eyepieces. The result is that the camera on top needs to be fine focused independently from the eyepiece view.
On the BHA I use with my vertical illuminator I mount the 50D directly atop the trinocular tube. The adapter I made incorporates a helical focusing tube (scavenged from a Vivitar 2X macro teleconverter). This, together with the 10X magnified "live-view" provides a very fast way of making the microscope camera and eyepieces parfocal.