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Dishonest reselling sites: examples
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mjkzz



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 1037
Location: California/Shenzhen

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Here's another example of sellers all having the same items to sell. In this case Nikon 20x MM objectives. Could be same seller, but the locations are different except for 2 of them (songlcd and lehk013). Here are the links:

sx-space
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-NIKON-20X-Ship-for-DHL-or-EMS/143003573468?hash=item214bad5cdc:g:mWgAAOSwkfxb4aYJ

zlb1981
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-20X-90day/163417361761?hash=item260c6f0d61:g:UV8AAOSwWrxcCRFg

songlcd
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-20X-90day-warranty-via-DHL-or-EMS/223213118536?hash=item33f889e448:g:jksAAOSwGD1b2wGN

lehk013
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-test-NIKON-20X-with-90day-warranty-Free-DHL-or-EMS/223212736335?hash=item33f8840f4f:g:CrgAAOSwRYNb2qye

jane-netwrok
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-100-test-NIKON-20X-by-DHL-or-EMS-90days-Warranty-py001/253895426351?hash=item3b1d58c12f:g:ZXoAAOSwAI9bqjQ9

I don't believe that 21 of these 20x objectives all came to market same time, so at a minimum something "fishy" is going on here.

Edited to add: I purchased a Nikon 20xMM objective a while back for $1000, and ended up selling it for $1200 (both eBay), so these prices are a bit high, but after they come down 30% like they did on the RayFact the price will be more in line with reality.


Yeah, I see duplicate listings on Taobao, too. Take my returned 20x Mitty for example, one showed up in Beijing, two more in other locations, same pictures, same serial # and when I received it, SN matches.

I think these are "professional" dealers of this kind of thing. The Beijing seller actually called me asking what was wrong, he mentioned that he has TWO stores on Taobao, ie, same owner. But it sounded like my return made him stuck with that item even though initially he probably did not own it.
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kaleun96



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks to be a fair amount cheaper on TaoBao as well!


Though I've come across some listings that have a low price and then in the description the seller indicates the price is much higher.
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ray_parkhurst



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what is this "LiNOS Lens 8k"? Does anyone see this lens being spec'd by Linos?
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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjkzz wrote:


Well, of course, from another perspective, scammers are on both sides, if there were dishonest sellers, there would be dishonest buyers. Bad people do exist. I myself have faced some buyers who even made threats, but these are VERY small percentage and I just ignore them and let Paypal do their business.

As for "bait and switch" and change description, I am not sure if that is possible, at least now -- after transaction, the page is frozen by system, nothing can be changed, if seller want to make change, they have to change the one in public, not the page frozen at time of transaction. This is at least what I think, never actually checked this and I have been buying on Taobao for 9 years and now almost on daily basis ranging groceries to brand new cameras.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I did encounter a "bait and switch", it was an Olympus objective. I wanted the one with N at the end and it was an item that has the outer shell sawed off half way, but when I received it, it did not have that N, so I returned it, Taobao refunded literally in split seconds and because I bought the return shipping insurance, I did not lose a penny (maybe some time)

You can use AliChat (or something like that) to negotiate a price before committing.

Another example here. I buy groceries from taobao, just because I am lazy and I can. Very often, eggs get broken upon arrival, when I show the seller a picture of broken ones, I have not encountered anyone asking questions, they all refunded me that portion even though I can still eat the eggs. Why am I saying this? It is trust. This is something I have never seen, even in US.

Anyways, I think Taobao is trying to build a trust based platform, not just trust in Taobao, but also, trust between buyers and sellers. This trust environment made me buying more on Taobao. For the past 9 years staying in China, I have seen profound change in this.


Yeah, I'm sure you've faced paypal scammers too. William at Wemacro talked about those paypal scammers filing weird stuff to get money back. I really dislike paypal. This kind of rubbish can't be pulled on Alipay.

As for bait and switch, dealing with those people is easy -- if one is in China. Many on the forum aren't, Robert told me a horror story with bait and switch, he even got a friend who can speak and type Chinese to deal with the seller, nothing worked out in his favour.

I'd rather buy on Taobao over ebay, I do that regularly and get friends to bring me the items. I've learned my lessons when it comes to lenses though. For those in China, the usual tricks will not work. I only got played because I had to get the items forwarded to me. I'd go further to say that in China, it's better to buy from Taobao than actual stores for the coverage they have. Same with us for ebay, selling is a different story. The two platforms work similarly, Taobao and their alibaba chat thing just makes stuff way easier than the stupid ebay message stuff. I would stay away from buying food online in China though... I gained 20 kg during my one month stay from all the "wai mai" food I consumed... I like very spicy stuff, which are usually oily and extremely unhealthy; the jeans I wore entering the country, couldn't be worn back, it didn't fit! Embarassed The convenience made me so lazy.

On the side note and related, I talked to one seller on Taobao, he is aware of the relistings, and claims he isn't behind any of those accounts. I do trust him, the Linos showed above is one of the many stuff he offers for sale. The person would not mind taking photos of the imperfections and circling them out, he won't disassemble a lens, clean it, and then claim it's "mint"... unlike another guy I'd rather not name.
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mjkzz



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
mjkzz wrote:


Well, of course, from another perspective, scammers are on both sides, if there were dishonest sellers, there would be dishonest buyers. Bad people do exist. I myself have faced some buyers who even made threats, but these are VERY small percentage and I just ignore them and let Paypal do their business.

As for "bait and switch" and change description, I am not sure if that is possible, at least now -- after transaction, the page is frozen by system, nothing can be changed, if seller want to make change, they have to change the one in public, not the page frozen at time of transaction. This is at least what I think, never actually checked this and I have been buying on Taobao for 9 years and now almost on daily basis ranging groceries to brand new cameras.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I did encounter a "bait and switch", it was an Olympus objective. I wanted the one with N at the end and it was an item that has the outer shell sawed off half way, but when I received it, it did not have that N, so I returned it, Taobao refunded literally in split seconds and because I bought the return shipping insurance, I did not lose a penny (maybe some time)

You can use AliChat (or something like that) to negotiate a price before committing.

Another example here. I buy groceries from taobao, just because I am lazy and I can. Very often, eggs get broken upon arrival, when I show the seller a picture of broken ones, I have not encountered anyone asking questions, they all refunded me that portion even though I can still eat the eggs. Why am I saying this? It is trust. This is something I have never seen, even in US.

Anyways, I think Taobao is trying to build a trust based platform, not just trust in Taobao, but also, trust between buyers and sellers. This trust environment made me buying more on Taobao. For the past 9 years staying in China, I have seen profound change in this.


Yeah, I'm sure you've faced paypal scammers too. William at Wemacro talked about those paypal scammers filing weird stuff to get money back. I really dislike paypal. This kind of rubbish can't be pulled on Alipay.

As for bait and switch, dealing with those people is easy -- if one is in China. Many on the forum aren't, Robert told me a horror story with bait and switch, he even got a friend who can speak and type Chinese to deal with the seller, nothing worked out in his favour.

I'd rather buy on Taobao over ebay, I do that regularly and get friends to bring me the items. I've learned my lessons when it comes to lenses though. For those in China, the usual tricks will not work. I only got played because I had to get the items forwarded to me. I'd go further to say that in China, it's better to buy from Taobao than actual stores for the coverage they have. Same with us for ebay, selling is a different story. The two platforms work similarly, Taobao and their alibaba chat thing just makes stuff way easier than the stupid ebay message stuff. I would stay away from buying food online in China though... I gained 20 kg during my one month stay from all the "wai mai" food I consumed... I like very spicy stuff, which are usually oily and extremely unhealthy; the jeans I wore entering the country, couldn't be worn back, it didn't fit! Embarassed The convenience made me so lazy.

On the side note and related, I talked to one seller on Taobao, he is aware of the relistings, and claims he isn't behind any of those accounts. I do trust him, the Linos showed above is one of the many stuff he offers for sale. The person would not mind taking photos of the imperfections and circling them out, he won't disassemble a lens, clean it, and then claim it's "mint"... unlike another guy I'd rather not name.


So far I have not encountered ANY scammers, just one demanding unreasonable replacement, but not scamming. S**t happens during shipping, but that does not mean they deserve a replacement costing twice as much. Sometimes, one has to stand up to these type of people. If you are too soft, they will spread it out and you will get more scammers.

I do not eat on the street in China, nor do I order take-outs (wai mai), I order online because those groceries are "natural", at least that is what they claim (those on TMall are pretty credible). By "natural", I mean, for example, chickens were raised normally, not by injecting hormone and grow to 2kg in 3 months.

Yes, that dealer seems to be professional, always detailing imperfections, and that is what I like and trust. I think I ordered some from it.
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dickb



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ray_parkhurst wrote:
So what is this "LiNOS Lens 8k"? Does anyone see this lens being spec'd by Linos?


Not this specific lens. Other lenses with a code starting 4401 are all in the laser optics part of the Linos catalog, not the machine vision part. Not sure whether they are absolutely consistent in their numbering though.
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ray_parkhurst



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dickb wrote:
ray_parkhurst wrote:
So what is this "LiNOS Lens 8k"? Does anyone see this lens being spec'd by Linos?


Not this specific lens. Other lenses with a code starting 4401 are all in the laser optics part of the Linos catalog, not the machine vision part. Not sure whether they are absolutely consistent in their numbering though.


To me this lens looks like a 75mm Magnagon. They made that lens in many different styles. I am not sure what optics are in the large mount case.
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mjkzz



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I am reading some dissident opinions and here are some of mine and it is directed to the thread starter, Lou.

First being Chinese American, singling out the word Chinese is a little glaring to me. Now if one were scammed by an American seller/sites, should the American one be added to this list? If so, why singling out only CHINESE ones?

Concept of DISHONEST, you know optical equipment are tricky, let alone a used one. A newbie (or even experienced in the field) might read some good reviews, presented by highly skilled experts, about a particular lens. But this does not mean he/she could get the same result due to many reason, skills involved, lighting conditions, even copy variation, as result possible trade dispute could happen, in this case, who is dishonest? Is this community or a "judge" appointed by this community going to be involved in a trade dispute? Who are we to make a judgement in a trade dispute?

To this day, I finally understand that there are "influencers" in this community. The "influencers" ask for free equipment directly or by implication (it is heart wrenching to see a highly repected figure is doing this for a couple of hundred dollars). There are bloggers who does not disclose what is behind the blog. So the question is how to regulate the "judge" and see if the appointed "judge" is not a covert "influencer"? What if one of the "dishonest Chinese site" had secret dealing under the table with the "judge" and leading to bias?

Let's assume the "judge" is all good, super honest and super fair, does the "judge' have subjective feeling? Like hey, this site is not a Chinese one, there is less chance of dishonesty. Also, some times, the subjective feeling does not reveal itself till others point it out.

And Lou, a while back, you posted something about using objective with the word "Judge" in the title. I see the merit of your post, but it was like over hyping of that configuration and completely ignoring the fact the configuration has twice the absolute CA. I get it, in terms of RELATIVE CA, it is fine, but why the hell do people here pay big bucks for a mitty vs a generic Chinese objective, beside sharpness? I get it that when I finally discover something with merit, I am, too, behind the idea with full zeal. But I also get it that after a while, I will realize how tunnel visioned I am, possiblely mislead people. So coming back to this topic, what if the "judge" happen to have "tunnel vision" syndrome when asked to list a "dishonest Chinese site"?

What if the appointed "judge" gains popularity, how can we prevent abuse of power/popularity?

There are a lot of consequences when playing "judge", and more importantly, regulating the "judge". I really think this thread is a dangerous one, it has biased wording against certain group, it ignores the potential corrupted consequences when this community is going to play "judge" in a trade dispute.

I think I saw a post regarding a mitty being not up to standard. In the post, a serial number is posted, thus warning people to look out for without discrediting the seller. I think that type of post should be encouraged.


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lonepal



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjkzz wrote:
Since I am reading some dissident opinions and here are some of mine and it is directed to the thread starter, Lou.

First being Chinese American, singling out the word Chinese is a little glaring to me. Now if one were scammed by an American seller/sites, should the American one be added to this list? If so, why singling out only CHINESE ones?

Concept of DISHONEST, you know optical equipment are tricky, let alone a used one. A newbie (or even experienced in the field) might read some good reviews, presented by highly skilled experts, about a particular lens. But this does not mean he/she could get the same result due to many reason, skills involved, lighting conditions, even copy variation, as result possible trade dispute could happen, in this case, who is dishonest? Is this community or a "judge" appointed by this community going to be involved in a trade dispute? Who are we to make a judgement in a trade dispute?

To this day, I finally understand that there are "influencers" in this community. The "influencers" ask for free equipment directly or by implication (it is heart wrenching to see a highly repected figure is doing this for a couple of hundred dollars). There are bloggers who does not disclose what is behind the blog. So the question is how to regulate the "judge" and see if the appointed "judge" is not a covert "influencer"? What if one of the "dishonest Chinese site" had secret dealing under the table with the "judge" and leading to bias?

Let's assume the "judge" is all good, super honest and super fair, does the "judge' have subjective feeling? Like hey, this site is not a Chinese one, there is less chance of dishonesty. Also, some times, the subjective feeling does not reveal itself till others point it out.

And Lou, a while back, you posted something about using objective with the word "Judge" in the title. I see the merit of your post, but it was like over hyping of that configuration and completely ignoring the fact the configuration has twice the absolute CA. I get it, in terms of RELATIVE CA, it is fine, but why the hell do people here pay big bucks for a mitty vs a generic Chinese objective, beside sharpness? I get it that when I finally discover something with merit, I am, too, behind the idea with full zeal. But I also get it that after a while, I will realize how tunnel visioned I am, possiblely mislead people. So coming back to this topic, what if the "judge" happen to have "tunnel vision" syndrome when asked to list a "dishonest Chinese site"?

What if the appointed "judge" gains popularity, how can we prevent abuse of power/popularity?

There are a lot of consequences when playing "judge", and more importantly, regulating the "judge". I really think this thread is a dangerous one, it has biased wording against certain group, it ignores the potential corrupted consequences when this community is going to play "judge" in a trade dispute.

I think I saw a post regarding a mitty being not up to standard. In the post, a serial number is posted, thus warning people to look out for without discrediting the seller. I think that type of post should be encouraged.



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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I see your point, but this particular practice seems uniquely Chinese, because it depends on Taobao's inaccessibility to most of us, and all of the sites that duplicated the listing were Chinese. Are there non-Chinese sites that engage in this particular practice of falsely implying on eBay that they have an item which they do not have, and doubling or tripling the price? Anyway I will change the title of this thread.

Regarding my old post, you are right, the equivalence only applies to resolution on the subject. Blowing up the image blows up everything. The apo objective I was discussing doesn't have any noticeable CA at 20x, but I imagine there is some magnification sufficiently large that CA might be detectable.
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mjkzz



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Yes, I see your point, but this particular practice seems uniquely Chinese, because it depends on Taobao's inaccessibility to most of us, and all of the sites that duplicated the listing were Chinese. Are there non-Chinese sites that engage in this particular practice of falsely implying on eBay that they have an item which they do not have, and doubling or tripling the price? Anyway I will change the title of this thread.

Regarding my old post, you are right, the equivalence only applies to resolution on the subject. Blowing up the image blows up everything. The apo objective I was discussing doesn't have any noticeable CA at 20x, but I imagine there is some magnification sufficiently large that CA might be detectable.


I think until we, as a professional community, establish a sounding governance that can get rid of any form of corruption, bias, and most importantly, deliver impartial judgement (can we, I doubt it), this type of post, to the lesser extent, is like kiddo's house play without adult supervision, however innocent, still irresponsible.

To more serious extent, this can be considered as libelous statement that has serious legal consequences . If any of the parties in the list decides to take legal actions, filing libel suit, you are most likely to lose the suit. Why? The court will likely consult statement from trading platforms (ebay, paypal, taobao, etc), and if the suing party is not being thrown out for dishonesty, this could be considered as libel (ie, your statement is not true and your statement is defaming those in the list). I think, even if the involved party sues the vendor and win, the court would not take that as evidence of dishonesty, rather a trade dispute.

Of course, I am not a lawyer, just my two cents for your benefits, consult a lawyer if you want to.
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Chris S.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's note that someone--probably Lou--has edited the title of this thread to "Dishonest reselling sites: examples", with no mention of a particular country. I think this means, "point taken, let's try to fix an unintended miscommunication."

mjkzz wrote:
. . .this can be considered as libelous statement that has serious legal consequences . If any of the parties in the list decides to take legal actions, filing libel suit, you are most likely to lose the suit. Why? The court will likely consult statement from trading platforms (ebay, paypal, taobao, etc), and if the suing party is not being thrown out for dishonesty, this could be considered as libel (ie, your statement is not true and your statement is defaming those in the list).

At least under U.S. law, this is only partially correct. For libel, the bar is higher than simply proving that the defendant made false and defamatory written statements. It is also necessary to prove that the defendant knew these statements were false, or was negligent in checking their validity. This is very difficult to prove in court; while libel suits are not uncommon, successful libel suits are rare.

I suggest we move on. Lou made a thoughtful post on a situation of potential concern. Useful counterpoints have been made in responding posts. The title of the original post was modified based on these later posts. Looked on from a distance, this looks like a productive conversation. What say we not let it devolve into an argument?

--Chris S.
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Macro_Cosmos



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjkzz wrote:

So far I have not encountered ANY scammers, just one demanding unreasonable replacement, but not scamming. S**t happens during shipping, but that does not mean they deserve a replacement costing twice as much. Sometimes, one has to stand up to these type of people. If you are too soft, they will spread it out and you will get more scammers.


That's what I did when it came to the paypal claim, but I still got 3ffed over in the end...

The evidence I had:
1. Auspost stating they delivered the item
2. Receipts with time and location matching up
3. Postage label photo

Paypal still took the money from me and refunded the scammer. Initially they asked for postage label which I didn't have at the time since I goofed up my phone. I was then able to recover it and sent it, they still sided with the scammer. Now my paypal is -$160 (negative balance!) and they have a debt collector after me, yeah not going to give them the money.

I'm absolutely sure if one can reproduce a shipping label, have receipts and tracking number, and have say SFexpress officially stating that they've sent item A to location B, Alipay would tell the scammer to shove it. Paypal is disgusting. I'm definitely getting an amex card some day. The evidence I have will hold up in any court and it's impervious to any scrutiny, paypal being the literal scum they are just do not care.
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Macro_Cosmos



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjkzz wrote:
Lou Jost wrote:
Yes, I see your point, but this particular practice seems uniquely Chinese, because it depends on Taobao's inaccessibility to most of us, and all of the sites that duplicated the listing were Chinese. Are there non-Chinese sites that engage in this particular practice of falsely implying on eBay that they have an item which they do not have, and doubling or tripling the price? Anyway I will change the title of this thread.

Regarding my old post, you are right, the equivalence only applies to resolution on the subject. Blowing up the image blows up everything. The apo objective I was discussing doesn't have any noticeable CA at 20x, but I imagine there is some magnification sufficiently large that CA might be detectable.


I think until we, as a professional community, establish a sounding governance that can get rid of any form of corruption, bias, and most importantly, deliver impartial judgement (can we, I doubt it), this type of post, to the lesser extent, is like kiddo's house play without adult supervision, however innocent, still irresponsible.

To more serious extent, this can be considered as libelous statement that has serious legal consequences . If any of the parties in the list decides to take legal actions, filing libel suit, you are most likely to lose the suit. Why? The court will likely consult statement from trading platforms (ebay, paypal, taobao, etc), and if the suing party is not being thrown out for dishonesty, this could be considered as libel (ie, your statement is not true and your statement is defaming those in the list). I think, even if the involved party sues the vendor and win, the court would not take that as evidence of dishonesty, rather a trade dispute.

Of course, I am not a lawyer, just my two cents for your benefits, consult a lawyer if you want to.


Nah I think you're reading too much into this. Take this example:
I don't like red apples.
"So you don't like all apples? Why are you singling out apples, what about oranges?"
No, it's the red apples, not green ones.

Dishonest Chinese sellers.
"So you don't like Chinese sellers? Why are you singling out Chinese sellers? What about American ones?"
No, it's the dishonest Chinese sellers, not the honest ones.
(I'm not exemplifying anyone's statements, it's just a generalising analogy, I'm not saying anyone here in claiming "so you dislike..." etc.)

The emphasis here is on dishonesty, and the fact that all these sellers are Chinese. As Chinese myself, screw Chinese sellers who are dishonest. The post is targeted at Chinese sellers who are dishonest, not Chinese in general. To be fair, these people being Chinese doesn't matter, but then 100% of these ebay relisters are Chinese, many of which have utterly horrible ratings -- mostly because they sell items they don't have and they just cancel the order.

We are amateurs and hobbyists with lots of time, placing an order on an out of stock item just to get refunded the next day won't really matter. Think about this though, imagine yourself as a project manager and some high end equipment decided it's a great time to fail. Instead of going to the repairs department, claiming insurance, or getting the manufacturer to solve the issue, you see a replacement board on ebay for a decent price. The alternative options will cost a lot and you as the manager with a tight budget does not want to increase the overhead cost of the project. You proceed to place an order with the fastest next day shipping option. After one day, the seller cancels the order because it's "out of stock". You wasted an entire day dealing with a malfunctioning item. The loss in terms of labour and trouble stemming from frustration during the one workday is irreversible, and moreover, at the end of the day, you have to take those alternative options which are more expensive. The losses went from one day of frustration to that, and in addition the cost to fix that silly equipment. One can argue it's just bad decision making, but usually we as humans do not assume the worst of others, and not everyone is aware of such practices. These sellers aren't just selling optics people in our community like to sniff and rub on, there are ones relisting salvages boards, parts from high end equipment, and etc. I have photos of the two "electronic trash mass grave" locations in China. One is in Shenzhen, the other in Hong Kong. I was told to not post them, so I won't. China consumes about 90% of the world's ewaste, literally the world's electronic dumpster. So the ones yammering on China being the biggest polluters can really just shove it. Per capita China is also about as polluting as an average European country. To measure pollution by totality instead of per capita is just dishonest.
It's like this but on a far larger scale:



This kind of practice as stated is uniquely Chinese, it's a consequence of the somewhat inaccessible market in China and the ramifications of purchasing from China whilst not being able to speak the language, thereby unable to adequately defend oneself. There's plenty of these actions in real life actually, in terms of tourism, there are tourist traps targeted at people who do not speak the language. It's obviously not just China, I've heard stuff from all over the world, but the practice is mostly from countries that are considered "developing", the practice is also criminal, at least in China. My point is that, not being a native speaker and not being able get items first hand greatly increases the chances of getting screwed. Some dishonest people will exploit this fact. For example, my dad's company got played by a factory in Israel, they refused to solve the problem so he just had to eat up the losses. Having the item forwarded also increases the chances of it breaking by at least twice, since the shipment is performed twice.

I stand by my position that it's worth it as long as one isn't paying more than 20% extra. Ebay and Paypal's protection adequately handles the downside of directly purchasing from China, it serves as an equaliser. One can even abuse this system by dramatising minute problems. This is called "yan shi guan" and it's largely frowned upon in China. I personally won't do that.

The libel stuff won't work. This statement is factually correct. The practice isn't unethical, just dishonest.
1. These sellers lie about their inventory. They don't own the items, this is against ebay's ToS, they are technically not allowed to do this kind of stuff.
2. These sellers lie about the condition. They simply do not know the condition of the item.
3. What these sellers are doing can be considered exploitative. They are exploiting people with limited access to the market.
4. Relisting, creating multiple listings, and listing duplicate items elsewhere is also against the ToS.
If eBay takes their ToS seriously, all these sellers should be banned. Multiple violations here.

An example is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Good-LINOS-inspec-x-L-4-0-105-3-5X-Lens-ship-by-EXPRESS-90days-warranty/183776360266
It's still listed, and it's claimed to be in stock. This is simply untrue, because guess who has it...

Just look at this mess. I rarely take embarrassment on behalf of others... But if people talk about how deceptive Chinese sellers are and use this as an example, I'll have a hard time trying to take the opposite side. Everything in anecdotal, such as five of my bad businesses came from Melbourne and I live in Sydney... but c'mon, this?!

Look at the feedback, it seems like the seller doesn't go out of their way to inform the buyers about the availability. If it's not available, who cares! Not gonna tell the buyer, they can wait or go to paypal to get their money back. This is far, far worse than I initially thought. I thought these sellers despite being dishonest about their listings, would at least have the decency to inform the buyer about unavailable items and cancel the order straight away. These people are literal scum.

I don't take any offence to this title, I've also been the person talking about these things for a long time, before any of this was made aware to others. I've warned people about the practices and the jacked up prices in an attempt to discourage others from giving these people money.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris S, yes, as I mentioned above, I changed the title of the thread in response to mjkzz's concern. I don't mean to imply that Chinese sites are always bad, or especially bad. If I had meant that, I would not have bothered to single out the particular sites that were employing this dishonest practice.

But mjkzz, nothing I said was libelous. To prove a libel case, you have to prove (in the US at least) that the statement in question is not true. It is clear that the resellers I listed steal the photo of the item (you can see watermarks piled on watermarks), and deliberately imply that they have the item when they do not. Macrocosmos just revealed that their behavior is even worse than I thought.

This photo of the lens in question has four different watermarks!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-test-LiNOS-Lens-8k-Free-DHL-FedEx/153452179588?hash=item23ba767084:g:aw0AAOSwQQxctCX3

Sometimes these sites provide the only way for us to get some items. It can be a useful service. But the buyer should be aware of the risk.
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