DIC with Leitz 170mm or 160mm TL system

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:49 pm

Hi Guys, I'm searching for a list of compatible condensers and objectives for a Leitz 170mm Orthoplan.

I see condensers on eBay and Polarising sliders, etc. But I cannot seem to find 170mm TL objectives with matching wollaston prisms. I can find plenty of infinity corrected ones though, like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leitz-NPL-10x- ... rk:26:pf:0

Of course Orthoplan is not infinifity it's 170mm TL but it will also tolerate 160mm objectives. So my question is, does anyone know what the compatible condenser / objective range is for the Orthoplan?

Maybe I missed a trick and there is actually a infinity corrected Orthoplan turret out there, or maybe it's better to buy an infinity corrected Leitz stand of some sort. I prefer to use the Orthoplan because I'm used to it I guess and I like the machining quality and precision.

Thanks for any insight you may have!

Photomicro · Post by **Photomicro** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:27 pm

waterbear wrote:Hi Guys, I'm searching for a list of compatible condensers and objectives for a Leitz 170mm Orthoplan.

I see condensers on eBay and Polarising sliders, etc. But I cannot seem to find 170mm TL objectives with matching wollaston prisms. I can find plenty of infinity corrected ones though, like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leitz-NPL-10x- ... rk:26:pf:0

Of course Orthoplan is not infinifity it's 170mm TL but it will also tolerate 160mm objectives. So my question is, does anyone know what the compatible condenser / objective range is for the Orthoplan?

Maybe I missed a trick and there is actually a infinity corrected Orthoplan turret out there, or maybe it's better to buy an infinity corrected Leitz stand of some sort. I prefer to use the Orthoplan because I'm used to it I guess and I like the machining quality and precision.

Thanks for any insight you may have!

I am in no way knowledgeable about Leitz, but an acquaintance that I correspond with sent me this only today!

***********************

however it is one of the last orthoplans to be made as it is in a white very pale colour with matching accessories the lenses-all 5 of them were also odd as they were all the much later infinity leitz lenses after a lot of research i discovered that leitz actually made a special infinity turret for the orthoplan for use of infinity lenses for incident illumination and the lenses all focus superbly whilst the older 170tl and 160tl also work perfectly well

**********************

Not sure where he found this out, but I think there is a good chance someone here will know something of this. If not, I will ask him.

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Hi,

The infinity nosepieces for Orthoplan do exist: https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=26608.0

With regard to the ICR interference contrast system, there is detailed information here: https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=26592.0

The Wollaston prisms ICR are meant for interference contrast with incident light (epi-illumination). This is used to analyse surfaces like polished metal etc. See page 11 here: http://earth2geologists.net/Microscopes ... ochure.pdf

There were several interference contrast systems for transmitted light http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... oplan.html . The most common is the Smith-T system which had Wollaston prisms built into the objectives themselves (the objectives are quite expensive).

Regards, Ichty

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:24 am

Hi there, thanks for the info.

I found an infinity (reflected light) turret for sale and it has 1.25x and an infinity symbol on the front, with a reflected light splitter inside (probably why as longer tube length around 200mm or more required to fit that in)...

It seems to be that getting objectives for transmitted light will be very difficult but I see both a Smith-T and Nomarsky version for sale.

Condensers with prisms seem available on eBay, but I think matching the objectives, sliders and condenser up for say the usual 3 magnification ranges will be a very costly and time consuming exercise which may or may not work. I think Orthoplan will need to stay Phase and Brightfield (which is fine they are fantastic for that).

I'm also checking out the Nikon side of things. There seems to be some ex lab stuff for sale on eBay, bit here and there, but I haven't had much luck on eBay with objectives, which makes me a little reticent. I've had several in an terrible state, advertised as good condition but all scratched up and delaminated.

And Nikon is the lab-workhorse. I know from a colleague in the lab optics industry that if the DIC equipment on these scopes have been temperature-cycled like in a culture lab from say 37C back to room temp 21C and up again many times, then the DIC components will be impacted quite a lot, so I need to ask sellers for evidence it's working.

I'm still investigating easiest options for DIC, and see a lot have tried the same, now I've read on the forums it bit. I think probably better to spend the money for a complete system from a dealer or buy from someone on here who knows what they are doing, I guess...

bernhardinho · Post by **bernhardinho** » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:17 pm

waterbear wrote:Hi there, thanks for the info.

I'm still investigating easiest options for DIC, and see a lot have tried the same, now I've read on the forums it bit. I think probably better to spend the money for a complete system from a dealer or buy from someone on here who knows what they are doing, I guess...

Hi waterbear

I tell you what: I would go for PZO Pluta DIC. Easy to set up, parts crop up quite often on ebay . I`m using a PZO Biolar stand and Leitz 160mm optics and I just love it.

Cheers from Germany

Bernhard

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:27 pm

Thanks, I am checking this out too. I see some advertised but no information on compatibility with various stands. Do you have a catalogue or something I can interpret?

Many thanks!

Perl · Post by **Perl** » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:37 am

HI
there are Leitz DIC objevtives on Ebay
Look for ICT Objective
it do notmatter if it are 160or 170 TL
if they are 16X or more

Regards
Pär

bernhardinho · Post by **bernhardinho** » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:28 am

waterbear wrote:Thanks, I am checking this out too. I see some advertised but no information on compatibility with various stands. Do you have a catalogue or something I can interpret?

Many thanks!

We have discussed this many times in our german forum. You can obviously use the PZO stands, the MB 30 being a bit more humble, the Biolar a bit bigger and more luxurious. The PZO DIK head and condensor will also fit on the old black Zeiss Junior stands.

The big advantage is of course that all prisms and pol filters are integrated in the DIC head and turret condensor, so you are free to choose your optics!

Bernhard

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:54 pm

bernhardinho wrote:
waterbear wrote:Thanks, I am checking this out too. I see some advertised but no information on compatibility with various stands. Do you have a catalogue or something I can interpret?

Many thanks!
We have discussed this many times in our german forum. You can obviously use the PZO stands, the MB 30 being a bit more humble, the Biolar a bit bigger and more luxurious. The PZO DIK head and condensor will also fit on the old black Zeiss Junior stands.

The big advantage is of course that all prisms and pol filters are integrated in the DIC head and turret condensor, so you are free to choose your optics!

Bernhard

Thanks Bernhard what about a larger more stable Zeiss stand like 12 16 or 18?

I hear some accessories are interchangeable like the bino heads and so-on.

Best regards

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:04 pm

waterbear wrote:what about a larger more stable Zeiss stand like 14 16 or 18?

The PZO condenser has a 39.5 mm fitting, similar to the Zeiss Standard Junior. Some modification needed, apparently. https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... 8#msg67698

The larger Zeiss Standards have a dovetail condenser holder that is not compatible with PZO. That would require major modifications.

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:41 am

Thanks now it makes sense. I have some ideas and options now, Nikon Optiphot, PZO on Zeiss, and Zeiss Jena Jenamed which I'm also researching. I also need to investigate imaging capability 4/3rds or 35mm full frame.

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:13 am

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
waterbear wrote:what about a larger more stable Zeiss stand like 14 16 or 18?
The PZO condenser has a 39.5 mm fitting, similar to the Zeiss Standard Junior. Some modification needed, apparently. https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... 8#msg67698

The larger Zeiss Standards have a dovetail condenser holder that is not compatible with PZO. That would require major modifications.

Maybe the Zeiss WL could be adequate making and adapter to mount the PZO condenser by its lower polarizer mount to the Zeiss condenser dovetail holder because it has much more clearance than the smaller 14-18 stands and the condenser mount is changeable, although I've not taken the measurements

Also the Zeiss west dovetail mount for the microscope head is not compatible with PZO, I've tried it. It could be mounted but clearly decentered. I think it will be possible to exchange the dovetails of the PZO intermediate DIC part, although it's not a trivial hack

I think it's more easy to get a Biolar stand, then the only needed hack will be to change the low powered incandescent lamp for a good LED

bernhardinho · Post by **bernhardinho** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:37 am

Pau wrote: I think it's more easy to get a Biolar stand, then the only needed hack will be to change the low powered incandescent lamp for a good LED

By all means!!

And you can fit a Olympus CH2 trinocular head as well and it looks like this:

https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... 3951;image

This is my solution!

Cheers Bernhard

waterbear · Post by **waterbear** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:05 am

thanks Bernhard that looks great! I'm now putting out feelers for pricing for:

PZO hybrid solution (components)
Nikon Optiphot (expensive but impressive results)
Jenamed (also expensive but according to German forums and photos amazing results).

I just hope I don't have to sell my other scopes to pay for it all

all the best

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:44 am

Hi,

The Biolar is a nice microscope, not a bad choice (although if you have an Orthoplan the difference in mechanical quality is "noticeable").

The difficulty is getting a trinocular head for the Biolar. The Olympus head is an interesting option (only slight change in tube length) but it is easy only if you have the MPl5 interference contrast attachment, like Bernhard.

The MPl3 head has a lever that makes this solution more difficult http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... p?p=100362
and it would require a literal hack of the trinocular head:
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/110 ... Wu0qxuPTDA

DIC with Leitz 170mm or 160mm TL system

DIC with Leitz 170mm or 160mm TL system

Re: DIC with Leitz 170mm or 160mm TL system