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Beyond 50x NA 0.55 (Mitty). What next?
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1377
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Enrico - some good food for thought there. Given the significant four-figure investment involved, I really don't fancy being a pioneer on this one Smile

You've prompted me to experiment further with my EPI objective set though (does bright and darkfield). Maybe blocking the illumination in places and/or external oblique light might yield useful results. Or some combo of bright-field (through the objective) and dark field (through the outer sleeve). Worth a tinker anyway.

The main issue with all this (for me) is Zeiss objectives need compensation with KPL oculars (or projection lens) which ties me to the inverted ICM405. While fine for experimenting, it's not going to cut it as a final solution. But I'll cross that bridge later - if I even get to it.

Thanks again.
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sushidelic



Joined: 10 Jun 2016
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Enrico
That is a pretty cool mod to a Mitutoyo (I am thinking about printing one myself), but it is not what I meant. Often the barrel of the objective goes straight down, resulting in a big metal cylinder around the fron element of the objective and a fat tip. Obviously, this doesn't matter if the objective is used as intended by the manufacturer. But as soon as you want to light "macro-style", it would be best to have nearly no metal around the front lens element and a conical shape upwards, which would leave a bigger angle for external illumination. The Mitutoyos are pretty good already in this regard, but I am often thinking about "repackaging" some lenses for achieving a tinier tip width.
@Steve
I'd never buy that one (LMPlanFL 100x) new straight from Edmund. They once in a while show up on ebay and command roughly the price of the Mitty. The Kittonia that made image of the month july was shot with the BD equivalent, I love that lens.

Best regards,
Michael
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1377
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sushidelic wrote:

@Steve
I'd never buy that one (LMPlanFL 100x) new straight from Edmund. They once in a while show up on ebay and command roughly the price of the Mitty. The Kittonia that made image of the month july was shot with the BD equivalent, I love that lens.

Me neither. In fact I won't buy anything from them as I think their prices are outrageous (at least for the things I wanted to get). The Mitties I bought new were direct from Mitutoyo UK and significantly cheaper! Saved £hundreds. No worries about bad 2nd-hand copies, and no waiting for them to turn up for sale. The latter was important to me at the time as didn't want the cash diverted to some other "attractive trinkets" while waiting Smile

Quick update too. I don't know why, but I thought my Zeiss HD 40x EPI objective was NA 0.65. It's not, it's NA 0.85 (!!) with a perfect shape to the tip as you discussed above. WD's not too bad either, though I haven't got it in place to measure precisely yet. Busy making a ping-pong ball shroud for it. Just waiting for the matt black paint to dry (to block light from getting past the barrel) and will be testing shortly.



Edit: the objective has an RMS adapter fitted, so I don't have to reconfigure the scope for EPI (different stage and objective turret to the ones for "normal" use).
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genera



Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 85
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:

. . .
Personally I have never touched one, but judging from this thread it is pretty much like an FS60 without coaxial illumination. The scope body does not contain much more than a tube lens and beam splitter, so it should not be significantly different.

The FS70 usually has slots for inserting additional optics into the optical path.


I've also never touched a FS50 but I do have a few catalog pages so I'll make a correction and add a few details. The FS50 had, as standard, a 20W co-axial illuminator (it's on the side not shown in the linked FS50 thread). It also has a full time 50/50 photo port and 1-2x zoom mechanism which is an option on the FS60.

Slots for a polarizer and analyzer were optional on both the FS60 and FS70. The FS60 is user upgradeable with kit part number 378-070. On the FS70 it's a factory installed option.
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1377
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tested the 40x NA0.85 HD Epiplan objective with external lighting only. Pros and cons but more cons on my ICM-405 inverted, so I'll do those first.

CONS
1. Working distance <3mm - tough to squeeze light in even with thin tip.
2. Needs corrective eyepiece or projection lens (Zeiss KPL)
3. ICM 405 front photo-port has 3.2x lens, so 128x on sensor. Empty mag.
4. Super shallow DoF at <0.4 microns - biiiiig stacks

PROS
1. Satisfyingly increased resolution over a 50x Mitty
2. Got attached pic (scales from same wing as original post)
3. Less keen on getting "beyond 50x Mitty" - for now. Cured! Smile

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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
Posts: 117
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Beatsy, asking for a mate:
1. What is your current setup? I did see a previous post featuring a rail, a field monitor, and your Sony system, has anything changed since then?
2. What is a good approach to lighting these subjects of butterfly wings?

In addition that that, I'd like to know the name of the butterfly in the main post, looks beautiful!

Thanks!
~MC
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Boring to the eye? Could be amazing when magnified by 10 times!
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Beatsy



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 1377
Location: Malvern, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Hey Beatsy, asking for a mate:
1. What is your current setup? I did see a previous post featuring a rail, a field monitor, and your Sony system, has anything changed since then?
2. What is a good approach to lighting these subjects of butterfly wings?

In addition that that, I'd like to know the name of the butterfly in the main post, looks beautiful!

Thanks!
~MC

Hi,

My setup is the same in terms of the rail, monitor and camera. The lens setups change daily though - often multiple times a day Smile Always tinkering with that.

Lighting is either two trond lamps (LED flat panels on a gooseneck) - a ping pong ball diffuser lit various ways (I have several with different amounts of "blacking" painted on the inside to give *some* direction to the light), or a large dome diffuser with bits cut out (just like a large ping pong ball really).

Sorry, no idea what the butterfly was. I only have a wing fragment that came in a box of wings I bought off Ebay (from a butterfly farm).
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