High quality rig for Nikon D850 under 5k?

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Jesse
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High quality rig for Nikon D850 under 5k?

Post by Jesse »

Hello,

I'm currently looking at ebay for a microscope to mount to my Nikon D850 for photographing and video'ing bacteria, pond life, etc. I plan to use the footage as b-roll or primary footage on my youtube channel. My budget is as little as possible, with as much detail and fidelity as possible, but my hard upper limit is 5k. 2k is more comfortable.

My current favorite pick is this Labophot 2 with phase contrast, lightfield, and darkfield, but I'm a little unclear on how good the objectives are: https://www.ebay.com/itm/292534994551?V ... 2534994551

I think DIC is probably out of my price range, but it would be nice.

I looked at more modern infinity objectives and LED light sources, but I couldn't find an eclipse 55i with a trinocular head. Trinocular heads for that model appear to be 1k+. This binocular head 55i is particularly attractive as it has what appears to be a highly desireable 10x objective, however it is not clear to me if this unit is strictly brightfield or if it can do darkfield and phase contrast too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-ECLIPSE- ... 2873795006 (also, most problematically, no trinocular)

I did find a Zeiss Universal with a trinocular head, but I'm unclear on the quality of the objectives or how exactly to mount my camera to the trinocular head: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Universa ... 3067713410

Again, primary goal is optical quality. Ease of use is probably my second concern. Price last, but a limiting factor.

Are there rigs out there or nikon fmount attachment mechanisms that I am blind to? Should I buy the labophot 2?

Any advice welcome. Thanks!

aidanmoore
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Post by aidanmoore »

Hi,

I've been watching this Nikon 90i for some time:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-eclipse-90i/273106903101

It has DIC objective prisms, most likely (but not confirmed DIC condenser prisms and analyzer/polarizer) and very nice objectives for an incredible price.

The 90i has the ability to work via USB with a program called Micromanager that allows full automation.

Sorry to put you at your upper limit but this is a pretty good deal when you consider the costs of an infinity DIC microscope with automation and two camera ports.
Custom Nikon/Thorlabs Microscope Nikon Z7ii ZCAM E4

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

aidanmoore wrote:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-eclipse-90i/273106903101

...
but this is a pretty good deal when you consider the costs of an infinity DIC microscope with automation and two camera ports.
Be aware, that offer has HUGE red flags.

Quoting from the item Description,
Almost everything works, but not the Stage Z movement up/down. When starting up, it tries initialize the stage ,looks like the step motor does not get correct signal, this might be either step motor, driver or its ribbon cable looks bad.
The physical location is Israel (ship to US for additional $1000+), and the seller does not accept returns.

--Rik

aidanmoore
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Post by aidanmoore »

Yup...those details would be enough to cool down anyone's enthusiasm.

Too bad...a Nikon 90i with DIC is a nice scope, but only if you can focus :)

The 90i's have a fairly complex logic board in the back that makes do-it-yourself repairs difficult and I've never seen a schematic of these boards.

The Z drive is a stepper motor controlled by the optical rotary encoded focus knob connected to the board.
Custom Nikon/Thorlabs Microscope Nikon Z7ii ZCAM E4

Jesse
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:40 pm

Post by Jesse »

How likely am I to miss phase contrast? I’m wondering if I can make do with the 55i and just brightfield. I like that the 10x optical is good for direct connection to my camera.

I’m also wondering how difficult it will be to photograph directly from the eye viewfinder.

houstontx
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Post by houstontx »

Jesse,

Just PM'd you some other options.

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

The Labophot looks rather expensive. I have much the same scope, (Optiphot, trinoc, same objectives and condenser) bought for a fraction of that figure, and this is the UK where things tend to cost more. It came from a dealer.
They're getting quite old now.
Chris R

Beatsy
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Post by Beatsy »

ChrisR wrote:The Labophot looks rather expensive. I have much the same scope, (Optiphot, trinoc, same objectives and condenser) bought for a fraction of that figure, and this is the UK where things tend to cost more. It came from a dealer.
They're getting quite old now.
Yes, I thought that one was expensive too. I have a Labophot with trinocular head, though mine is equipped with EPI objectives and a BF/DF EPI illumination system (as well as transmitted via the base light and sub-stage condenser). Got mine for £350 via Ebay last year - also in the UK. I thought it was an exceptionally good deal though and would have been willing to pay more. It became the centre of my dedicated diatom arranging setup.
Image
Last edited by Beatsy on Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pau
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Post by Pau »

I did find a Zeiss Universal with a trinocular head, but I'm unclear on the quality of the objectives or how exactly to mount my camera to the trinocular head: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Universa ... 3067713410
Not adequate for your goals: it's equipped for reflected DIC, only useful for metallographic work

To source a good modern infinite corrected microscope well equipped at your price range is a matter of patience and luck (patience helps to have luck). A good older finite corrected instrument is much easier to find. Nikon *phot models, Olympus BH2 series and some Leitz and Zeiss models can be a priori the typical candidates.

Some pointers:
- almost all good microscopes can be equipped for DF and Phase, you can buy the components separately. DIC is nicer in many cases for pond life but much more delicate, expensive and difficult to find. Not all models can be used for DIC, if you find the components.
- The most important components are the objectives. Plan Apos are the best followed by Plan Fluorites and Plan (achromats)
Pau

Jesse
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Post by Jesse »

Ok, good to confirm the labophot is too expensive. It’s as old as I am after all. Ridiculous that these things still cost so much when they were built in the 80s.

What about this Zeiss Axioskop 50 with dic? http://r.ebay.com/OTmzOg
Worth the price or no?

Jesse
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:40 pm

Post by Jesse »

Also, I've read the Diaphot series has a 35mm Nikon fmount on the front. This unit has DIC on the 20 and 40 objectives for 5k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Microsco ... 3335165040

Contrasting that, this brightfield e200 with no trinocular goes for just $600: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-ECLIPSE- ... 2808251039

Do I need DIC?

Beatsy
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Post by Beatsy »

Jesse wrote: Do I need DIC?
Maybe, maybe not. Sorry.

For stills, I'd say you could manage without. Modern sensors with their ~14-stops of dynamic range can stand a lot of contrast-stretching in post without posterising. So even ordinary brightfield can still reveal low-contrast detail very well.

Oblique illuminations methods can give similar results to DIC (just a variation on brightfield and sometimes called "poor man's DIC").

I don't know the Nikon video system, but Sony A7rii and other models in the range allow S-Log and other related profiles to be applied during video capture, preserving dynamic range in highlights or shadows as required (at the expense of the opposite end of the tonal range). If that's an option for Nikon, then maybe brightfield or one of the oblique illumination methods will be good enough.

One thing to think about is that DIC usually robs a lot of your light - as much as 80% in some configurations. So that might be a consideration (ref ISO noise and exposure time per frame etc).

I guess, in summary, I'm tending towards "no - you don't need it", but mainly on the basis of it being too many complications for first time out (if it is your first time out).

Jesse
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:40 pm

Post by Jesse »

Beatsy wrote:
Jesse wrote: Do I need DIC?
Maybe, maybe not. Sorry.

For stills, I'd say you could manage without. Modern sensors with their ~14-stops of dynamic range can stand a lot of contrast-stretching in post without posterising. So even ordinary brightfield can still reveal low-contrast detail very well.

Oblique illuminations methods can give similar results to DIC (just a variation on brightfield and sometimes called "poor man's DIC").

I don't know the Nikon video system, but Sony A7rii and other models in the range allow S-Log and other related profiles to be applied at capture, preserving dynamic range in highlights or shadows as required (at the expense of the opposite end of the tonal range). If that's an option for Nikon, then maybe brightfield or one of the oblique illumination methods will be good enough.

One thing to think about is that DIC usually robs a lot of your light - as much as 80% in some configurations. So that might be a consideration (ref ISO noise and exposure time per frame etc).

I guess, in summary, I'm tending towards "no - you don't need it", but mainly on the basis of it being too many complications for first time out (if it is your first time out).
Nikons have a flat video profile that is fairly similar to S-Log. I admit I usually record using the flat profile and rarely apply changes because I'm a bit lazy and I dislike Final Cut Pro's interface for editing saturation and exposure. We also have HDMI out where we can capture using an external encoder, but I don't own any of those at the moment.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Steve, what's that aspirator-like contraption on your set-up?

Beatsy
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Post by Beatsy »

Lou Jost wrote:Steve, what's that aspirator-like contraption on your set-up?
For gently breathing onto in-progress diatom arrangements. The condensed moisture from my breath briefly softens the gelatin-based fixative and sticks already-arranged frustules in place. Dries again in seconds so I can continue placing and arranging more. One of my more successful bodges, I thought :)

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