RF Remote Triggers

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mawyatt
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: Clearwater, Florida

RF Remote Triggers

Post by mawyatt »

We've had some discussions on another thread and some of this moved over to RF Remote Triggers which didn't actually align with the original topic.

So though we could discuss these RF devices on a new thread and have folks chime in and provide additional information and experiences. I feel somewhat qualified to discuss RF Triggers and Electronics in general to start as that relates to my paying job (designing analog, RF & Microwave systems, chips and so on), and I have had some real world experience with these devices lately.

My experience is with the lower cost triggers in general, so I'll stay away from the higher end products, others may want to provide information here.

Many of us are now looking or moving to remote control of our stacking systems, and trying to get away from excess wires and cables. I started down this path quite a few years ago and went with the cheap eBay triggers from Neewer and Viltronix, and later some Yonguno products.

These worked well and did what I wanted, triggering the speedlights (Nikon SB800) to flash. I really wasn't interested in the HSS and iTTL capability, so just RF triggering was my goal for macro use. Later I got interested in these features and got the YN-622N from Yonguno as well as some of their excellent speedlights. As my stacking session became more involved, longer, and beneficial to our work, I started to notice some problems with missed frames and even misfires (It's not fun to have your head in the middle of 4 or 5 600W strobes fiddling with the subject alignment and get surprised with a massive light burst :shock:

Upon trying various configurations I found I was still having some problems, not dead in the water problems, just annoying problems mostly for missed frames or some changes in exposure. So I moved away from speedlights at this time (tired of fiddling with batteries and such) and started using studio strobes (another topic for in-depth discussion) with external the RF Triggers. Some of the strobes were not firing, or not firing within the shutter window, sometimes none of the strobes would fire. This was somewhat worse than with the speedlights!!

After awhile I traced this down to the RF Trigger receivers from Neewer and Viltronix, so switched to the Yonguno system(s). This certainly helped but I was still finding some issues, mostly with missed frames. At that point I became very frustrated, did some investigative work and went looking for a better solution within my budget (low), which I found with the Godox/Adorama RF system. BTW I paid full list for all my gear, so no bias to steer towards a given brand.

What I found with the Newer (RT-16) and Viltronix (JY-02) RF trigger system was interesting. They both are identical designs as best as I can determine (suspect some of the Yonguno devices are also, but don't have any to look into). The transmitter is 433MHz and based upon a SAW resonator, so somewhat frequency stable. The receivers are not well controlled and have no stable reference, just basically listening for anything in the general frequency area. The modulation scheme is the simplest of all, called ASK (Amplitude Shift Keying), basically turning the transmitter ON and OFF based upon a simple code (kind of like Morse Code) and at a slow rate. The coding scheme is just a few bits to define what they call a channel (4 bits = 16). This is somewhat misleading since the RF frequency is fixed for all these devices (dictated by the SAW device in the transmitter). So all use the same RF Frequency and use the simple code to define a "channel" and detect a trigger command. As you imagine this is highly prone to being jammed and creating mis-triggers!! Two simultaneous triggers will jam each other if they overlap it time!! To help with detection, I believe the channel code is sent more than once, maybe 2 or 3 times to help the receiver detect the trigger, but without a scope I can't tell for sure.

These are old designs from long ago, and used for Key Fobs, Garage Doors and so on. They work and are cheap, so for most general purpose uses are fine, for detailed critical use, maybe not so.

Now that RF has come into common use, newer communication designs have emerged around new chips that work in the ISM band at 2.4GHz, Bluetooth for example. These systems have much better characteristics than the older 433MHz systems and actually use frequency channels and sophisticated coding schemes together. They also use more robust modulation schemes at much higher data rates.

For our macro use this allows many more channels and groups as well as remote control of parameters other than just a RF tigger command.

The RF System that I have now from Adorama/Godox (R2) is centered around these characteristics at 2.4GHz and includes many features not available on the older lower frequency devices.

For example: The Adorama Studio 300 Strobe has a built-in receiver that works with the R2 remote transmitter @ 2.4GHz. This receiver is based upon a superheterodyne architecture (probably Zero IF or Direct Down Conversion for you techies). It uses a stable quartz crystal at 26.0MHz which means it has an in-chip frequency synthesizer (probably integer) to multiply the 26MHz reference frequency up to 2444MHz for example, and a tuned RF front end for general band frequency selectivity (the 433MHz receiver designs don't have much frequency selectivity).

So it's no wonder that these updated RF trigger systems based around 2.4GHz rather than 433MHz have more capability and better overall performance. For the system I'm using now I've seen very few problems so far, very happy with the performance.

With the advanced chips available @ 2.4GHz these new RF Remote Triggers don't cost that much more than the old 433MHz RF Triggers and offer much more advanced and reliable operation from my experience.

Anyway, hope this helps some folks that are considering RF Remote Triggers for their macro setups, or general use.

Others please chime in with your thoughts, guidance and experience.
Best,

Mike
Last edited by mawyatt on Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tevans9129
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:03 am
Location: TN

Post by tevans9129 »

Interesting post Mike, I actually recognized some of the nomenclature used. Thanks for relating your experiences with the triggers.

RobertOToole
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: United States
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Post by RobertOToole »

Very good info Mike. Thanks for taking the time to explain your findings.

I have been using the Godox 2.4GHz for a few months and find they are very reliable.

Have a good weekend.

Robert

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