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Need help with strobes.
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Need help with strobes. Reply with quote

Just received two of these Studeo300r2 strobes which I tried out using the YN622 system and they worked beautifully. Then I tried using the sync cord from D800e and at first it worked as expected but now this is what I get.



I have tried every option that I can think of, different subject, light placement, different settings, different lens but the problem follows the strobes

This is what I get when using the YN622 with everything else being the same. Can anyone point me to the error of my ways? It makes no sense to me and any help would be appreciated.

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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I have not had time to verify it yet, it makes sense to me and I believe The gentleman has provided a good explanation for my dilemma IMO.

When using the YN622 which has HSS capabilities, there was no problem. The D800e does not perform HSS over the sync cable. Therefore, with SS above 1/250 or so, it was catching part of the curtain. Sounds good to me but will verify when time permits.
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1516
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's probably what you are seeing with the rear curtain rising.

Simple test is just use a slower shutter and see if this gets rid of the black space.

If these are the Adorama Studio 300 (SK300II Godox) strobes, then you can use the R2 transmitter (Godox X1) since these strobes have a built in Radio receiver that allows you to trigger and control the power remotely.

I've just ordered some corn type LED bulbs from eBay to replace the incandescent modeling bulbs that came with these strobes. I got a few different to experiment with and found one that works with these strobes and the dimming controller. Not as bright as the original bulbs but basically no heat built up which is what I wanted.

Best,

Mike
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
That's probably what you are seeing with the rear curtain rising.

Simple test is just use a slower shutter and see if this gets rid of the black space.

If these are the Adorama Studio 300 (SK300II Godox) strobes, then you can use the R2 transmitter (Godox X1) since these strobes have a built in Radio receiver that allows you to trigger and control the power remotely.

I've just ordered some corn type LED bulbs from eBay to replace the incandescent modeling bulbs that came with these strobes. I got a few different to experiment with and found one that works with these strobes and the dimming controller. Not as bright as the original bulbs but basically no heat built up which is what I wanted.

Best,

Mike


Yes, they are the ones from Adorama and I have ordered the Xpro. I have been using the YN622 system until the Xpro arrives.

The LED bulbs sound very interesting Mike as there is much heat from the incandescent ones. Would you mind providing the information as to what and where you got the ones that work for you? I would appreciate the info. Ted
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1516
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tevans9129 wrote:
mawyatt wrote:
That's probably what you are seeing with the rear curtain rising.

Simple test is just use a slower shutter and see if this gets rid of the black space.

If these are the Adorama Studio 300 (SK300II Godox) strobes, then you can use the R2 transmitter (Godox X1) since these strobes have a built in Radio receiver that allows you to trigger and control the power remotely.

I've just ordered some corn type LED bulbs from eBay to replace the incandescent modeling bulbs that came with these strobes. I got a few different to experiment with and found one that works with these strobes and the dimming controller. Not as bright as the original bulbs but basically no heat built up which is what I wanted.

Best,

Mike


Yes, they are the ones from Adorama and I have ordered the Xpro. I have been using the YN622 system until the Xpro arrives.

The LED bulbs sound very interesting Mike as there is much heat from the incandescent ones. Would you mind providing the information as to what and where you got the ones that work for you? I would appreciate the info. Ted


Ted,

The heat was why I began looking into the LEDs. Here's what I've ordered for LED bulbs, the one I have works well with these strobes and allows dimming (most LEDs don't). I have just one that I found that worked and ordered 9 more to use in all my strobes that have incandescent modeling bulbs, and have a couple spares. These aren't as bright as the modeling bulbs though, so keep this in mind.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-E26-E12-E27-E14-G9-GU10-LED-Corn-Bulb-5730-SMD-Light-White-Lamp-Bright/301987979840?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=600786445114&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

These strobes are the best value IMO for studio macro work where you need lots of light (high diffusion). They are my go to strobes now and I use them for most of my chip image stacks like the opening page here on this site. Also working on a scheme to allow them to have delay strobe outputs for use with the Nikon D850 & D500 EFCS under Live View with full flash control. Ordering the parts soon!!

Best,

Mike
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="mawyatt"][quote="tevans9129"]
mawyatt wrote:
That's probably what you are seeing with the rear curtain rising.



Ted,

The heat was why I began looking into the LEDs. Here's what I've ordered for LED bulbs, the one I have works well with these strobes and allows dimming (most LEDs don't). I have just one that I found that worked and ordered 9 more to use in all my strobes that have incandescent modeling bulbs, and have a couple spares. These aren't as bright as the modeling bulbs though, so keep this in mind.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dimmable-E26-E12-E27-E14-G9-GU10-LED-Corn-Bulb-5730-SMD-Light-White-Lamp-Bright/301987979840?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=600786445114&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

These strobes are the best value IMO for studio macro work where you need lots of light (high diffusion). They are my go to strobes now and I use them for most of my chip image stacks like the opening page here on this site. Also working on a scheme to allow them to have delay strobe outputs for use with the Nikon D850 & D500 EFCS under Live View with full flash control. Ordering the parts soon!!

Best,

Mike


Much appreciated Mike, I placed an order, too bad they must come from China. Do not have and chances are slim that I will ever have a D850 so your project sounds interesting but it will not be needed for me, sadly. All of my in house shots are done with the computer and Mynikoncontrol software. It is much easier on my old eyes with a 27" screen rather than liveview on the camera. Thanks again and hope you have a wonderful new year.
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1516
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ted,

There might be a US source but I don't know, I'm in no hurry so a few weeks is OK. I thought about the more powerful bulbs but the diameter is greater than 31mm, so worried that they may impact the actual flash output. These are rated at 18W, which was the highest I could find that were 31mm dia max. and dimmable.

Know what you mean about the eyes, I'm really old!! I use an external 7" HDMI LED screen for viewing the stacking and getting things setup. 10" would be better but 7" is OK.

BTW good choice in getting these Adorama strobes, I don't have the Pro transmitter yet, just the R2. I've found that just draping shipping foam over the reflectors works well for diffusion along with a foam cup over the subject.

Best,

Mike
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Chris S.
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 3008
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tevans9129 wrote:
Although I have not had time to verify it yet, it makes sense to me and I believe The gentleman has provided a good explanation for my dilemma IMO.

When using the YN622 which has HSS capabilities, there was no problem. The D800e does not perform HSS over the sync cable. Therefore, with SS above 1/250 or so, it was catching part of the curtain. Sounds good to me but will verify when time permits.

Ted,

I can't tell what gentleman or explanation you're referring to. But for clarity, it may be worth mentioning a few things, even if these were covered in the explanation to which you refer.

On most Nikon camera bodies I've used, 1/250 second is maximum flash sync speed--the fastest shutter speed at which the camera is capable of synchronizing with flash output. If one exceeds this speed, a dark lower portion of the frame is to be expected because one of the two shutter curtains is partially blocking the sensor when the flash goes off. Looking at the Nikon D800 manual (page 299), I see that 1/250 is the maximum flash sync speed with many flashes, though the camera seems to be able to stretch to 1/320 with some flash models.

In my experience, adding RF triggers can make flash timing slightly less precise and repeatable, and dropping to 1/160 second has often been necessary to avoid dark bands. So your experience does not seem surprising.

As you may know, HSS flash is a different beast, in which the flash fires repeatedly, instead of just once per exposure. In this way, the flash acts more like a continuous light source, and so sync timing becomes much less important. However, this same trait greatly reduces the image-freezing, vibration-reducing effect that many macro photographers seek from flash.

Cheers,

--Chris S.
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1516
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris,

Some studio strobes don't use the multiple flashes that are associated with HSS, they can "stretch" the actual optical pulse width to "cover" the sliding shutter period during short shutter exposures. I recall a different name for this technique though, but can't remember (getting too old!!).

For example: a 1/500 shutter period is covered with an optical pulse of > than 2ms, rather than a series of shorter bursts synced with the shutter sliding movement. This can work with speedlights also, most older ones are really slow around full power, so one might get away with a speedlight/strobe that's not truly HSS compatible. The Adorama Studio Strobe 300 has a specified optical burst of 1/800 to 1/2000 second, so might be too fast for use as a stretched source.

Best,

Mike
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
Ted,



Know what you mean about the eyes, I'm really old!! I use an external 7" HDMI LED screen for viewing the stacking and getting things setup. 10" would be better but 7" is OK.

BTW good choice in getting these Adorama strobes, I don't have the Pro transmitter yet, just the R2. I've found that just draping shipping foam over the reflectors works well for diffusion along with a foam cup over the subject.

Best,

Mike


Mine is due tomorrow, the YN622 seemed to work, mostly, the problem with it is during 100 plus slices I would have 3-4 blank exposures. I have not experienced that with the sync cable and hoping that I do not have the problem with the Pro. Thanks for the diffusion suggestions, my wife has instructions for foam cups. Ted
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mawyatt



Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 1516
Location: Clearwater

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ted,

I found long ago that the Yonguno RF systems were not reliable for serious long stacking sessions, same goes for Neewer systems. Like you I would experience a few blank images, usually discovered only after or during a long stacking session with Zerene (Murphy's Law).

I did lots of investigation and decided that the Godox RF system was the best solution at the time, which has proven out to be the correct decision. Only issues I've had with the Godox/Adorama RF system is when the batteries get low in the R2 it can drop a trigger flash command. This, among other reasons is why I've been telling folks about these Godox/Adorama inexpensive & reliable strobe systems. Their RF system is fully compatible with their speedlights too!!

I'm shooting a tiny 1mm InP chip (D850 EFCS with LV) at 20X @ 2.5 micron steps with 300 images right now using this RF system.

Best,

Mike
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 721
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
...I did lots of investigation and decided that the Godox RF system was the best solution at the time, which has proven out to be the correct decision. Only issues I've had with the Godox/Adorama RF system is when the batteries get low in the R2 it can drop a trigger flash command. This, among other reasons is why I've been telling folks about these Godox/Adorama inexpensive & reliable strobe systems. Their RF system is fully compatible with their speedlights too!!


Good recommendation. I tried the 2,4 ghz Godox wireless system a few months ago and I am really satisfied. Good design and they are reliable so far.

Robert
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 721
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:


I found long ago that the Yonguno RF systems were not reliable for serious long stacking sessions, same goes for Neewer systems. Like you I would experience a few blank images, usually discovered only after or during a long stacking session with Zerene (Murphy's Law).



Nikon CLS is very reliable, for misfires! An external wireless controller, either SU-800 or Debao SU-800 is better but still, too many dropped frames.

Canons flash system is even worse with ugly varying WB temperatures from frame-to-frame. At least Nikon was very good frame-to-frame consistency, it just didn't like to fire all the time. (the Canon issue has been discussed here in the past, I think it was a post from Rik?).

The best solution in my opinion? = Godox.

BTW this post is NOT sponsored by Godox Very Happy

I paid full retail for all of my Godox gear.

Robert
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris S. wrote:

On most Nikon camera bodies I've used, 1/250 second is maximum flash sync speed--the fastest shutter speed at which the camera is capable of synchronizing with flash output. If one exceeds this speed, a dark lower portion of the frame is to be expected because one of the two shutter curtains is partially blocking the sensor when the flash goes off. Looking at the Nikon D800 manual (page 299), I see that 1/250 is the maximum flash sync speed with many flashes, though the camera seems to be able to stretch to 1/320 with some flash models.


I believe that to be true with the Nikon SB700 and the Yongnuo 685.

Chris S. wrote:

In my experience, adding RF triggers can make flash timing slightly less precise and repeatable, and dropping to 1/160 second has often been necessary to avoid dark bands. So your experience does not seem surprising.


Good to know, I will try to keep that in mind.

Chris S. wrote:

As you may know, HSS flash is a different beast, in which the flash fires repeatedly, instead of just once per exposure. In this way, the flash acts more like a continuous light source, and so sync timing becomes much less important. However, this same trait greatly reduces the image-freezing, vibration-reducing effect that many macro photographers seek from flash.

Cheers,

--Chris S.


No, I did not know that, the extent of my experience with off camera flash has been as fill for bird images. I noticed on my D810 using a Nikon SB700 or a Yongnuo YN685 with the YN622 trigger system that my ISO was automatically set on 1250. Apparently that was a limit of some sort as the recorded ISO was less than that.

IOW, it is best to keep the SS below the HSS parameter when trying to minimize vibration, is that correct?

Thanks again for the info. Ted
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tevans9129



Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 129
Location: TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mawyatt wrote:
Ted,

I found long ago that the Yonguno RF systems were not reliable for serious long stacking sessions, same goes for Neewer systems. Like you I would experience a few blank images, usually discovered only after or during a long stacking session with Zerene (Murphy's Law).

I did lots of investigation and decided that the Godox RF system was the best solution at the time, which has proven out to be the correct decision. Only issues I've had with the Godox/Adorama RF system is when the batteries get low in the R2 it can drop a trigger flash command. This, among other reasons is why I've been telling folks about these Godox/Adorama inexpensive & reliable strobe systems. Their RF system is fully compatible with their speedlights too!!

I'm shooting a tiny 1mm InP chip (D850 EFCS with LV) at 20X @ 2.5 micron steps with 300 images right now using this RF system.

Best,

Mike


Considering the minimal experience that I have with the Yongnou system as fill flash for bird images, I have been perfectly satisfied with it. However, I wanted to use the Studio 300ii strobes for macro and the 622 trigging was not dependable for me. Hope I have better luck with the Xpro. Ted
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