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4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES
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crisarg



Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will you also test the Olympus 38 2.8 lens? I’m curious about its performance at 4x. Don’t hope for too much though.
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enricosavazzi



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happened to test during the holidays a few lenses I have owned for years but not used much. None of them performed well on Micro 4/3, and all except one were really bad. I was wondering whether I was doing something wrong, since my test setup had given me excellent results with the Scanner Nikkor 40 mm, Printing Nikkor 105 mm and Zeiss S-Planar 74 mm I tested only weeks ago. In view of your tests, it is more likely that these lenses are just bad performers.

My recent lot, tested at different magnifications ranging from roughly 2x to 5x (shorter FLs tested at higher magnifications) and between fully open and f/8 (where aperture was available):

Tomioka Tominon 75 mm f/4.5
Fuji Fujinon EFC 43.3 mm for minilabs
V-mount Schneider Apo Componon 60 mm f/4 Makro-Iris
V-mount Schneider Apo Componon 40 mm f/2.8 Makro-Iris
V-mount Schneider Componon 28 mm f/2.8 Makro-Iris (probably the least bad of the lot, but still not good)

All tested reversed except the Tominon, which is reversed by design.
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enricosavazzi wrote:
I happened to test during the holidays a few lenses I have owned for years but not used much. None of them performed well on Micro 4/3, and all except one were really bad. I was wondering whether I was doing something wrong, since my test setup had given me excellent results with the Scanner Nikkor 40 mm, Printing Nikkor 105 mm and Zeiss S-Planar 74 mm I tested only weeks ago. In view of your tests, it is more likely that these lenses are just bad performers.

My recent lot, tested at different magnifications ranging from roughly 2x to 5x (shorter FLs tested at higher magnifications) and between fully open and f/8 (where aperture was available):

Tomioka Tominon 75 mm f/4.5
Fuji Fujinon EFC 43.3 mm for minilabs
V-mount Schneider Apo Componon 60 mm f/4 Makro-Iris
V-mount Schneider Apo Componon 40 mm f/2.8 Makro-Iris
V-mount Schneider Componon 28 mm f/2.8 Makro-Iris (probably the least bad of the lot, but still not good)

All tested reversed except the Tominon, which is reversed by design.


Hi Enrico,

Happy new year!

Over the holidays I have been running lots of tests also.

It's been exhausting sometimes, but I am really finding things I didn't expect, mostly that my lenses don't perform as well I am I remember, so it's been worth it for sure.

A M4/3 sensor must be tough on a lens, the photosites are so tiny, looking at Schneiders data on industrial lenses, only a few are designed for even 4-5 micron sensors, much less, what is it like 3.3-3.7 microns?

Robert
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enricosavazzi



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 976
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:

A M4/3 sensor must be tough on a lens, the photosites are so tiny, looking at Schneiders data on industrial lenses, only a few are designed for even 4-5 micron sensors, much less, what is it like 3.3-3.7 microns?

Robert

Correct, 3.3 micron in 20 Mpixel native mode, or 2.1 micron in 50 Mpixel mode (with all the due reservations and caveats of this mode). This is why I just -might- change my mind on Micro 4/3 as my only format, and get a full frame body for macro lab work only. I still will carry only Micro 4/3 in the field and on trips, in any case.

Reasonably good macro lenses for Micro 4/3 are not expensive, though. The Olympus 60 mm macro at 1x (1:1 pixel crop left) does not match the Printing Nikkor 105 (right), but for most uses the difference is not that great, and the 60 mm costs about 5 times less than the PN 105. Two things to notice: the 60 mm seems to go a little past 1x, and the angle of illumination of the wafer was different in the two pictures, with clear effects on relative brightness of some of the circuit elements. The 100 by 60 mm Trond panel was very close to the subject, but differences are obvious nonetheless. This means I must probably use a very diffused illumination in the next tests, for comparing results in a more reliable way across different sessions.


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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Oly 60mm lens is indeed very good, and it supports automatic focus-stacking which is an amazing thing in the field!!!!! I can stack any time I want without a rail, and even a deep stack takes only seconds or a few minutes if shutter speeds have to be slow. Once you get used to this, it is hard to go back. And totally silent, no slapping mirror.

Even better, you can build a reverse coupler as I did, and then you can do automatic focus-stacking up to at least 2x.

I find the small pixel size is an advantage when trying to extract all available info from a lens' aerial image. Sub-images can be made by shifting the camera with the lens kept stationary, and then can be stitched (if the subject sits still) to make a larger one with the same field of view as that of a FF or APS camera, but with vastly more resolution. With a really good lens I resolve almost 8000 lines per picture width.
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
After some delays working on the lightbox image display function on my site, that I gave up on BTW, I finally have part 3 of my 4X test up.

Some of the results surprised me, they are interesting for sure!

There was one clear winner in my eyes and it was the cheapest lens in the group, the most expensive lenses gave me the poorest image quality at 4x.



Robert


Hi, I'm not active in the forum for a while but looking and learning as usual Smile

RobertOToole: Congratulations for this gigantic lens test work!

I have a Componon 28mm f/4 "plastic barrel" for some years and in my opinion the 4 28mm lens in your test are some sort of variations on the same lens design.

Looking at the "family photo" the diameter of the rear element (front in working order) looks practically identical for the f2 and f4 lens, I can't see the f2.8 but I guess it will be similar... if you have a minute, could you measure it?

Cris R: I open mine shortly after receiving it to clean some internal dust spots and since it was already open I left it open to the maximum diaphragm, I'm not sure if is possible with the metal barrel and early versions.
IQ wide open are similar to Xenon f2 in the test, general low contrast and increasing magenta-green CAs at borders (trying to summarize it a lot) Smile

Edit to add picture:



Around 4.2X on 12 MP aps-c sensor

Best Regards and
Happy New Year!
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crisarg wrote:
Will you also test the Olympus 38 2.8 lens? I’m curious about its performance at 4x. Don’t hope for too much though.


I would but I don't have one! I thought about including the OM 38mm and the 20mm but they can be hard to get, and the prices are super high now on Ebay for the 20mm, something like $600-800! I wish I had sold mine for that Very Happy

Heres the master list for the 4X test:

P1
Lomo 3.7x 0.11
No-name Fluor 4x/0.10 finite Microscope Objective
$17 Amscope 4x/0.1 160/0.17 Plan Achromatic Objective
Nikon CFI BE PLAN ACHROMAT 4X /0.1 ?/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CFI E Plan Achro 4X/0.1 ?/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CFI Plan Achro 4X/0.1 ?/- Microscope Objective

P2
Nikon CF N Plan Achromat 4X/0.13 Microscope Objective
Nikon CF Plan Apochromat 4x/0.20 160/0.17 Microscope Objective
Nikon CFN Plan Apochromat 4x/0.20 160/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CF Plan Apochromat 4x/0.16 160/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CFI Plan Apochromat 4X/0.20 ?/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CFI Plan Fluor 4XA 4X/0.13 ?/- Microscope Objective
Nikon CFI Super Fluor 4X/0.20 ?/- Microscope Objective


P3
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/2 Xenon in metal B00 barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/4 Componon in metal B00 barrel
Rodenstock 25mm f/4 Omegaron
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/4 Componon in plastic BKV-L barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 35mm f/4 Componon in plastic BKV-L barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 28mm f/2.8 Componon in metal B-V barrel
Schneider Kreuznach 45mm f/4 APO-Componon in metal B-V barrel

P4
Minolta 25mm f/2.5 Micro Bellows Lens
Canon Macrophoto 20mm f/3.5 Lens
Canon Macrophoto 35mm f/2.8 Lens
Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo Lens
Noritsu 35mm f/4 Lens
Yashionon Tomioka 32mm f/3.5 Lens
Tominon 17mm f/4 Lens
Tominon 35mm f/4.5 Lens

P5
Mitutoyo 5x at 4x
Qioptiq Mag.X 5X 0.20! at 4x
Nikon MM 5x at 4x
Nikon MM 3x at 4x
Schneider Kreuznach APO-Componon 90mm Line scan at 4x!!
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RobertOToole



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES Reply with quote

Joaquim F. wrote:


Hi, I'm not active in the forum for a while but looking and learning as usual Smile


Welcome back Very Happy
Joaquim F. wrote:

RobertOToole: Congratulations for this gigantic lens test work!


Thank you

Joaquim F. wrote:

I have a Componon 28mm f/4 "plastic barrel" for some years and in my opinion the 4 28mm lens in your test are some sort of variations on the same lens design.

Looking at the "family photo" the diameter of the rear element (front in working order) looks practically identical for the f2 and f4 lens, I can't see the f2.8 but I guess it will be similar... if you have a minute, could you measure it?


Just grabbed the calipers, It is exactly the same.

I was commenting to Chris R in private conversation that when I was shooting the family photos, something strange occurred to me. The Xenon and all of the 28mm componons, when you hold them at the same angle in the same light, the lens structure, the lines, the size, the shapes and colors of the elements looks 100% identical. I know eye-balling isn't exactly accurate but I was surprised! Makes you wonder.

Joaquim F. wrote:

Cris R: I open mine shortly after receiving it to clean some internal dust spots and since it was already open I left it open to the maximum diaphragm, I'm not sure if is possible with the metal barrel and early versions.
IQ wide open are similar to Xenon f2 in the test, general low contrast and increasing magenta-green CAs at borders (trying to summarize it a lot) Smile


Not sure if you saw the image in the first page of this thread but I had a 28/4 that would open one stop past f/4 and I found similar performance, low contrast and not the best sharpness so I sold the lens. The previous owner must have modified the lens, but there were no spanner tool marks!

All the best and happy new year Joaquim!

Robert
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Joaquim F.



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 188
Location: Tarragona, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 4X LENS TEST PART 3 - ENLARGING LENSES Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:

Just grabbed the calipers, It is exactly the same.

I was commenting to Chris R in private conversation that when I was shooting the family photos, something strange occurred to me. The Xenon and all of the 28mm componons, when you hold them at the same angle in the same light, the lens structure, the lines, the size, the shapes and colors of the elements looks 100% identical. I know eye-balling isn't exactly accurate but I was surprised! Makes you wonder.

Not sure if you saw the image in the first page of this thread but I had a 28/4 that would open one stop past f/4 and I found similar performance, low contrast and not the best sharpness so I sold the lens. The previous owner must have modified the lens, but there were no spanner tool marks!


Ah, thanks, for my is enough proof! Very Happy

You have some plans to add a popular lens like EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 in this tests at 4X or so?

Best

Joaquim
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Doppelgänger



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much respect for the work you put into this.

Not sure if you've seen Coinimaging.com, but they have some interesting tests as well.

Still, tests on coins and inanimate objects, without backgrounds and bokeh/rendering considerations, are quite limited.

Best,
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RobertOToole



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doppelgänger wrote:
Much respect for the work you put into this.

Not sure if you've seen Coinimaging.com, but they have some interesting tests as well.

Still, tests on coins and inanimate objects, without backgrounds and bokeh/rendering considerations, are quite limited.

Best,


Hello Doppelgänger,

Since I am a wildlife photography by trade I also prefer images made in the outdoors, its where I feel most at home.

Over time I now prefer to get more consistent results in the studio with man made objects that don't bend twist or distort mid-test.

Also remember these tests are run in my studio and on my stand to my requirements, your results with the same lenses will surely vary quite a bit not to mention lens sample variation.

That said I would like to run a Bokeh sets on each test but I have tried using different subjects like flowers and back notes but I found the angle of view between lenses of the same focal length to vary too much to make the results useful.

Let me know if you know of a repeatable consistent way to test Bokeh.

All the best,

Robert
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Doppelgänger



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertOToole wrote:
Let me know if you know of a repeatable consistent way to test Bokeh.

All the best,

Robert


I wish I knew Smile

Here is an example that might point you in the right direction, from LensTip, on the Sigma 135 Apo.

Evaluation of the OOF circles in shape, and in smooth transition between center and edges, is generally how reviewers evaluate bokeh (though each has his methods for doing so).

Here is another on the same lens from Photozone.

Anyway, thanks for the work you've put into these tests. These suggestions are meant to enhance.
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